America Bully or Benevolent?

[Ronn_Bman]

Originally posted by Barry the Sprout: The actions that America has taken are ultimatley self motivated and self serving for the most part

This is true, but you say it like it's a bad thing

All nations act for the same self-serving reasons reasons. I can't think of a nation in exist today or in world history that didn't act for these very reasons. America isn't being selfish, instead America is acting in it's own best interest.

Nations choose to be allies for the same reasons. Nation A & Nation B aren't allies because they want to take care of the other, they become allies because they see the benefits they reap from such an alliance. Long term alliances begin to seem like friendships, but in reality, nations stay in alliances because they both benefit.

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"Your right to swing your fist ends where my nose begins."

[This message has been edited by Ronn_Bman (edited 10-29-2001).]

[Barry the Sprout]

Hmmm, bit of a misunderstanding about what I meant I am afraid my dragonlike friend. I personally think that your vision of a world playground is very likely, but not all that soon (as you would probably agree, current situation noted). But in terms of economics we already are moving towards one world. That is the inevitable pull of capitalism - it eventually destroys what it created to protect itself = countries. See my earlier post about countries being essentially artificial anyway. They are being destroyed slowly now, and all for the better as far as the majority of the world is concerned. The major barriors in todays society are the ones between rich and poor and they transcend national limits. People are pissed with America because it does commit legal theivery (v cool term by the way), not necessarily as a country but thruough the companies it harbours. If any of this makes sense to anyone here then I will be quite surprised as I am very tired...

By the way - you may be pleased about UK troops in Afghanistan but I am not. I personally don't like to think that troops supposedly defending my country are attacking another without my consent. Maybe I am a bit unrealistic in that sense.

Hope the puppy is ok.

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Life is like a piece of cheese. Mice only enjoy it in cartoons and it is better with toast

Originally posted by Barry the Sprout: Hmmm, bit of a misunderstanding about what I meant I am afraid my dragonlike friend. I personally think that your vision of a world playground is very likely, but not all that soon (as you would probably agree, current situation noted). But in terms of economics we already are moving towards one world. That is the inevitable pull of capitalism - it eventually destroys what it created to protect itself = countries. See my earlier post about countries being essentially artificial anyway. They are being destroyed slowly now, and all for the better as far as the majority of the world is concerned. The major barriors in todays society are the ones between rich and poor and they transcend national limits. People are pissed with America because it does commit legal theivery (v cool term by the way), not necessarily as a country but thruough the companies it harbours. If any of this makes sense to anyone here then I will be quite surprised as I am very tired... By the way - you may be pleased about UK troops in Afghanistan but I am not. I personally don't like to think that troops supposedly defending my country are attacking another without my consent. Maybe I am a bit unrealistic in that sense. Hope the puppy is ok.

Ahh, I know my world playground dream is just that~a dream.
I can see it coming, but it is going to involve a lot of change and a lot of grief for all involved what with people (esp Americans) having to give up certain rights that they feel are "God Given."
Our forefathers had good intentions, but themselves were capitalizing on what was here and what was to come, giving those with money equal opportunity.
I agree with you about the companies this country harbors that do commit legal thievery on a world-wide level and it is reason to be ashamed but those with no conscious don't feel it and those with no power over it can do anything about it. Those with authority are being bought off and all of us suffer in the end.
I doubt we are alone in the world with this, but we are the most popular huh?
Can you imagine a world where money was never conceived? I asked my room-mate this not long ago and he said something about just having a bartering system, to which I replied, not even that...just people, living on the planet with no concept of riches, just of surviving and assisting others in their own survival.
It was a possibility at one time very long ago. Whoever said money was the root of all evil sure knew what he was talking about!

I am sorry it stresses you that your own troops are involved. I don't like conflict myself, but I do believe in a swift end to fights that others want to start, if you know what I mean.

Thanks for your well wishes for the pup. His getting to come home means he is going to live. It was touch and go last night but he is on his way home as I write. I need to go and make sure I get some homework done now LOL. I get little to no rest some days!
Anyway, you take care & I'll be back later today or maybe tomorrow...hmm, come to think about it, I have a big (5 chapter) test in Gov't. on Wednesday so you might not see me here again until Thursday if I don't make it back later.
I really need to study up for this one!

Peace, Love & Hugs,

Moni



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The best thing about karma is that you create your own.

Pets Need Love Too

[Prime2U]

Originally posted by Moiraine: About the US, I'm not saying that it's good or bad, just that it is a fact : you are so much bigger than we other nations are !

wow I'm feeling like cheap humor today, so I thought I'd paraphrase miss Moiraine since I agree with her.

The US is a porn star while most countries won't shower in the lockerroom
The same type of comparison goes on in both places. Most people don't state it out loud, but it happens nevertheless.




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"Life is what happens while you are busy making other plans." - Lennon

[Prime2U]

Originally posted by Moni: Ahh, I know my world playground dream is just that~a dream. I can see it coming, but it is going to involve a lot of change and a lot of grief for all involved what with people (esp Americans) having to give up certain rights that they feel are "God Given." Our forefathers had good intentions, but themselves were capitalizing on what was here and what was to come, giving those with money equal opportunity. I agree with you about the companies this country harbors that do commit legal thievery on a world-wide level and it is reason to be ashamed but those with no conscious don't feel it and those with no power over it can do anything about it. Those with authority are being bought off and all of us suffer in the end. I doubt we are alone in the world with this, but we are the most popular huh? Can you imagine a world where money was never conceived? I asked my room-mate this not long ago and he said something about just having a bartering system, to which I replied, not even that...just people, living on the planet with no concept of riches, just of surviving and assisting others in their own survival. It was a possibility at one time very long ago. Whoever said money was the root of all evil sure knew what he was talking about! I am sorry it stresses you that your own troops are involved. I don't like conflict myself, but I do believe in a swift end to fights that others want to start, if you know what I mean. Thanks for your well wishes for the pup. His getting to come home means he is going to live. It was touch and go last night but he is on his way home as I write. I need to go and make sure I get some homework done now LOL. I get little to no rest some days! Anyway, you take care & I'll be back later today or maybe tomorrow...hmm, come to think about it, I have a big (5 chapter) test in Gov't. on Wednesday so you might not see me here again until Thursday if I don't make it back later. I really need to study up for this one! Peace, Love & Hugs, Moni

A place where money did not exist.... could be possible, but the population would be tiny and the lifespan would be very short. There is no way that this country could support 200 million people with no money. Most of them would starve. The old hunter/gatherers are the closest I can think of to a society with no money, and even they bartered at times.

[Gil-Galad]

IMO you are a super power because you - quite simply posess more economical, political, military etc. power than any other single nation in the world. In other words: Because yours is bigger than mine!
The art here is to be able to administer that power in a way that, ideally, would make everyone (yourself and those around you) happy. Realistically in a way that would p**s the least number of people or nations off.
Before the 11/9, if asked about my own opinion on this, I would most likely sound no different from christians generalising on muslims, muslims generalising on christians, arabs generalising on jews and vice cersa, you may continue this list ad lib...
But semi-lurking on this and the other IW forums and a general rising alertness about the world around me has, if not convinced me, then at least helped me to a much more nuanced view of the world as a whole, and the U.S. of A in particular. (I promised myself not to mention the muppet in charge, but now I went and did it anyway - sorry!)
Anyway - nice to hear honest opinions on either side from you guys. We tend to only get the more extreme views (either pro war or against) from the media. Even, or maybe especially, in the UK.

A good night to everyone, be ye friend or foe

[Barry the Sprout]

Gil - you were writing that at 3 in the morning? Ouch...
As for Moni's society without money it is very possible although,like the world playground, not right now. The hunter gatherers were only able to support a small number of people as they did not have the technological advances we do today. They didn't know about farming for example. People often get confused about this and think that a society without money has to be like the hunter gatherers in every way - what if we just use what we have but abolish money. Just because we have no money doesn't mean we have to forget farming and fishing techniques.

The society with money is deeply entrenched in peoples minds - that is why it will be with us for a while. We have lived our every moment in it and can't see an alternative working. Any excuse is used to support the shaky system we live under - it is human nature, it is the only system possible, it is the only system that doesn't infringe human liberties. All of these are often said without any actual thought as to what they might mean. As a result they are all said often in error.

Hopefully one day the world will realise that it is being taken for a ride by a small few - but it probably won't be for a while.

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Life is like a piece of cheese. Mice only enjoy it in cartoons and it is better with toast.