Women getting drafted equally as men...

[Melchior]

Originally posted by Timber Loftis: I've said this before as well. Equality means equality. You want all the benefits available in society, you can accept all the responsibilities.

Yeah but not all equality is equality. Take a poll tax. Everyone's equal by paying the same dollar amount of tax, but then not everyone is equally sacrificing.

I believe equal opportunity is what women were after. Equal choices and options in life, not equal treatment and expectation.

[johnny]

Equal choices and options, but not equal treatment and expectations ? That's not really fair towards their male counterparts now is it ?

[Melchior]

It means people should be expected to lift half their weight - an equal and relative sacrifice - rather than the exact same weight . Same exertion, rather than same outcome.

But everyone should have the opportunity to lift a weight if they want to.

[Barry the Sprout]

I think you're missing the point somewhat Timber - its not so much about equality but about liberation. If you lived in a society where there were arbitrary distinctions between people but even those at the top of the pile were being pretty poorly done by then you wouldn't simply want an equal share in their misery. You'd want liberation from that particular system of doing things. Most feminist stuff I've read comes from this direction - women don't want to just share in the crap men have to go through. They want political liberation, which means a person shouldn't be punished for wanting to have kids, and shouldn't be forced to work all the hours of the day to make a mark in their chosen career.

Those are problems that face both men and women to a degree, and most feminists note this and argue as such. But of course these problems affect women much more than men at the moment, hence why a distinct struggle for women's liberation is required. You attack a straw man if you think all anyone is after is complete equality.

[shamrock_uk]

Thanks for your insight Morgeraut. Still, if you're running from an ambush then it's all about absolute fitness - the women who are only able to run a distance in a longer time might get killed. It may not be fair (in that she might have to actually be fitter than the men to do an equivalent time) but its better than being dead...

[ 04-26-2005, 02:53 PM: Message edited by: shamrock_uk ]

[Morgeruat]

no less fair than someone that is 40+ having an extra 3:33 to run the same distance as an 18y/o to keep up would require a greater level of fitness on the part of the older soldiers

(using the chart you provided for reference)

[shamrock_uk]

At first glance yes, but a 40 year-old veteran contributes enough in terms of experience to make up for it. An 18-year old woman does not.

But yes, I fully admit the limitations, I guess its never going to be practical insisting all can perform equally well.

[wellard]

Originally posted by Barry the Sprout: a straw man

Long story Barry but the term Straw man is banned due to abuse on this forum [img]tongue.gif[/img]


Damn this is a good debate topic Larry. [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img]

morgeruat: indeed they did, but once it was over (end of maternity leave) she got shipped. It was a fairly frequent occurance for female soldiers to get pregnant to avoid the duty station.

How frequent? more so than is typical for females in that age group? is there hard evidence that pregnancy was used only as a tool for avoiding duty or just opinions?

[Morgeruat]

Originally posted by wellard: quote: morgeruat: It was a fairly frequent occurance for female soldiers to get pregnant to avoid the duty station.

How frequent? more so than is typical for females in that age group? is there hard evidence that pregnancy was used only as a tool for avoiding duty or just opinions? [/QUOTE]It was common knowledge that pregnancy was an "out" from duty in Kuwait (and other harship tours), and receiving female soldiers was frequently scheduled to maintain personnel levels and male/female racial quota's. Females actually went there infrequently enough for a 1 year tour (rather than a 3-6 month deployment) to make it something of an oddity. Having seen the numbers of females who were deferred because of pregnancy my conjecture is that pregnancy was used as a way to avoid getting sent to the desert.

[wellard]

Fair enough Morgeraut, thanks for not taking the questions as being aggressive as well, I was just after info [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img]