Canadians to Bush: Hope You Lose, Eh

[Cerek the Barbaric]

Originally posted by Rokenn: quote: Originally posted by Timber Loftis: I get the feeling President Bush doesn't mind people standing up to him on his ideas. He may disagree, but I don't think he minds the voice of opposition.

aye, President Bush does not mind the voice of opposition. Aslong as it is confined to a 'free-speech' zone a mile from the event [/QUOTE]Well, I saw THIS response coming from a mile away. [img]graemlins/laugh2.gif[/img] I've addressed this before, but it obviously bears repeating.

The policy of keeping protestors away from the President's immediate vicinity is not a new policy!!! It has actually been official policy since the attempt to assassinate Reagan (IIRC).

George, Jr. may have exercised this policy to the extreme, but he is NOT the person that came up with it. Clinton took some heat for the same thing during his tenure also. Don't remember if George, Sr. took that much flak over it...then again, he didn't take anywhere near the criticism of Clinton or his son.

Anyway, President Bush did NOT create the policy. It has been in effect for many years and through many different administrations.

[Cerek the Barbaric]

Originally posted by Timber Loftis: Besides, this "failing socialist nanny state" has quite a bit more personal freedom than we do and they have bested us economically for several quarters (on improvement percentages, not on total economic volume of course). In fact, the only thing "socialistic" I can think of about them is socialized health care, which is obviously serving them better than our piece of crap system is working here (erm... unless you're rich, then it's allll gooood here). In fact, several thousand Americans buy meds from Canada and several state governors are considering making bulk government purchases from there (directly challenging our asshole agencies and rules here). Viva la capitalism.

I'll have to challenge your assessment of Canada's health system vs ours, Timber. The socialized free health care comes at a very high cost - and I don't mean financially. I mean in the cost in lack of new equipment, length of time required for patients to get in and see doctors, length of time required to schedule surgeries and other medical procedures.

It is my understanding that most Canadians have to wait months to schedule a surgery. Even if the surgery is for a life-threatening condition, the wait to get into the O.R. is several months (residents of Canada can correct me if I'm wrong on this).

As for the equipment, I know for a FACT that is true. Because my own personal physician came here from Canada. At the time, I worked in the Purchasing Dept of a different hospital and we were in charge of ordering all the supplies he would need to set-up a new office here. We had a list of standard equipment needed for an office, which we faxed to him for his approval. His response was "I get all of THIS...for an OFFICE. I could open my own HOSPITAL here in Canada with this much stuff". The long waits for surgery are based on old (and possibly outdated) media stories, but the lack of equipment is straight from the horses mouth (so to speak).

When I had my surgery back in September, the surgeon was willing to schedule the procedure for the following week once he determined I was a good candidate. Yeah, our health system is expensive - VERY expensive. That is why we have Health Insurance companies. My current health insurance comes with a drug card, so I don't spend more than $25 for ANY medication I take...and I know from past experience that one of my current medications runs about $100.00 per bottle. And I am taking about 4 different types of prescription meds at the moment.

Now I have been limited by my disease in the types of jobs I could seek, because I have to have Group Insurance. Because of my illness, I am un-insurable on a private basis. There isn't a company in the world that will sell me health insurance on an individual basis because of the Crohn's Disease.

But with insurance, I have deductible to meet and an out-of-pocket cap. I pay 100% until the deductible is met (which is small, relatively speaking), then I just pay 20% until my out-of-pocket cap is met. After that, the insurance pays 100%. Trust me, I am paying a FRACTION of my actual medical costs.

So I will take our expensive health care system over the socialized, free alternative any day of the week.

SIDENOTE: I've heard that France also has free health care and doesn't face near the number of problems Canada does - so it IS possible that a socialized system could work...I just know from first-hand information that Canada's has a LOT of flaws in it.

[Cerek the Barbaric]

Originally posted by InjaYew: I wish some o' them Canadians could vote this November.

I have a feeling you won't be needing them. I'm seeing a lot of former Bush supporters - myself included - that are increasingly UN-happy with the shenanigans he is pulling. Unless something drastic happens, I don't think he will be serving a second term.

[skywalker]

Unfortunately I am not too excited about Kerry being the Dem candidate. I prefer Edwards by far and Clark over Kerry as well.

As for Dean, he's really screwed up any chance he may have had. I kinda wish he would throw his support behind Edwards before Kerry gets too far ahead.

Mark

[Cerek the Barbaric]

Originally posted by skywalker: Unfortunately I am not too excited about Kerry being the Dem candidate. I prefer Edwards by far and Clark over Kerry as well. As for Dean, he's really screwed up any chance he may have had. I kinda wish he would throw his support behind Edwards before Kerry gets too far ahead. Mark

Maybe he will since Edwards gained a little ground with his victory in S.C. Then again, the Carolinas should be automatic wins for Edwards - but that doesn't mean he will do well in other states. But it would be nice to see him give Kerry a run for his money.

[Timber Loftis]

Cerek, as I understand it the problem with getting treatment under the Canadian and UK health care systems is a bit overblown by Americans. From what I understand (corrections are welcome, guys), necessary surgeries and treatments get priority. An ER does not make you sit around with a broken arm for a week, for instance.

However, elective surgeries have a long waiting period. Some elective surgeries have very long waits, which is why some Canucks hop the border and simply pay at US hospitals.

Anyway, as you yourself mentioned, if you can't get insurance in the US, you're screwed. As I said, health care is fine if you're rich (or properly insured) here. Hey, my insurance rocks (wife is a state employee), so you won't hear me complaining. If I have a car wreck in South Chicago, I get my happy ass trucked uptown to Northwestern's facilities, which comprise several buildings and cover several city blocks.

But, if you're flipping burgers you've likely got no health or dental to speak of. (Now, if you're poor ENOUGH, you can probably get state/tax-funded health care.) Anyway, that's the real failing. In the 21st Century, the richest country on the planet absolutely should have at least basic minimum health services for its citizens.

Now, to look at the BigDrugCos I just get pissed. They whine because we hop the border to buy drugs at a 50%-75% discount in Canuckia. Well, if they're willing to sell them at that price there, they are STILL MAKING PROFIT. We absolutely should do what Canada does and put limits on prescription drug prices. We have absolute proof the companies will keep peddling their wares -- drug dealers always do.

[Cerek the Barbaric]

Even without insurance, hospitals still have to treat the patient. Now you won't get any elective surgeries , for certain. But you cannot be denied necessary treatment simply for lack of insurance or ability to pay.

Trust me, I've been on both sides of that fence. I did "flip burgers" for close to 6 years before and during college. But I also know the hospital I work for has to write-off a LOT of ER fees because people either refuse to pay or have no means of paying.

But when these same people come back to the ER for another visit, we have a mandatory obligation to see them and treat their injury or illness to the best of our ability.

Some private hospitals are able to refuse treatment to indigent customers, I believe. But they are definitely exceptions to the rule.

[Djinn Raffo]

Canada's health issues are overblown to a certain degree. Of course there are problems in the system. There are problems in every system. Just this morning i was listening to the BC Health Minister on CKNW radio talk on these issues.

It's like the airlines.. hundreds of thousands of flights take off and land every day.. but it's the one that crashes that makes the news.

[InjaYew]

Originally posted by Cerek the Barbaric: I have a feeling you won't be needing them. I'm seeing a lot of former Bush supporters - myself included - that are increasingly UN-happy with the shenanigans he is pulling. Unless something drastic happens, I don't think he will be serving a second term.

Ooh I hope you are right Mr. Barbarian sir. I don't think my nerves could stand another four years of a Bush White House.


[ 02-04-2004, 03:16 PM: Message edited by: InjaYew ]

[InjaYew]

Originally posted by skywalker: Unfortunately I am not too excited about Kerry being the Dem candidate. I prefer Edwards by far and Clark over Kerry as well. As for Dean, he's really screwed up any chance he may have had. I kinda wish he would throw his support behind Edwards before Kerry gets too far ahead. Mark

I feel exactly the same way. I fear that Kerry just doesn't have what it takes to beat Bush. I actually kinda feel like Clark could win against GW, but I find his lack of political experience worrisome. A couple of months ago I was hoping for a Dean\Clark ticket, but since that doesn't look like it'll ever happen, and I'm not sure I even still want it. I'd take a Kerry\Edwards and cross my fingers. And lemme don my flame retardant undies for a minute here, I think any one of the Dem candidates would do a better job than Bush has these past three years. Even Dennis Kunish... Kunichitch... Kuni...Koolspinach and he is way out there. So no matter who gets the nomination, that's who I'll vote for.