The "gay" high school opens with hateful protests

[Chewbacca]

Originally posted by MagiK: quote: Originally posted by Chewbacca: Lacking a safe refuge he is probably more likely to bring a weapon to school one day and show those bullies once and for all what it feels like. Besides you miss the point its not about the kids sexuality or what what hes going to do after high school, but about the way he is treated in the hypothetical scenario. I guess that must be okay to you since you are more concerned where the kids gonna end up after being able to go to school in a safe enviroment rather than what is happening to cause the neccessity of that safe enviroment. edited for clarity. And to ask if people get beat up and given swirlies in todays corporate enviroment?

Ummm Chewie...where did I ever hint that it was ok to mistreat the kid?

I was pointing out that sheltering him from the real world isn't going to be doing any favors for him. As for killing people, if that is the only way he can deal with bullies, then he is as seriously mentally unstable as the bullies are. The kid needs to learn to cope and to blend into his environment, its all fine and dandy to be gay if you want to, but you need to realize that choice (or if not choice then life style) or just being different carries a price.

Nothing in life is free and it is NOT only the gay kids that have to contend with bullies. Skinny kids do, fat kids do, jewish kids do, ugly kids do, poor kids do...every one has to learn to cope with it and has to deal with the same exact bullies. Being gay doesnt mean you are suffering more than any one else is.
[/QUOTE]No man, you didnt hint that it was okay to mistreat anyone unless silence counts as hinting. You make good points about who has to contend with bullies, and thats why it makes sense that if you can't control the bullies, you allow the bully's victims a safe refuge.

And if the victim kid becomes violent and hurts someone in an angry act of self defense this makes him unstable. Im confused...

[ 09-09-2003, 05:52 PM: Message edited by: Chewbacca ]

[Skunk]

Segregation always causes more problems than it solves. In this case, you are sending out the message that:

1. Gays are different from the rest of society and that's why they need to attend a 'special' school and
2. Gays get 'special' $3.2 million dollar treatment and you ought (not) to resent that...

Oh goody - this is going to help reduce discrimination...Not!

[Chewbacca]

The thing is this school isn't just for gays, it is for students who have faced bullying and harrassment. It has been labeled the gay high school because for some reason gay and transgender students seem to face more violence and harassment in school than others.

edit-
Here is a different article with some more details:

Story

NEW YORK — After dropping out of one high school because of classmates' taunts and threats, Louisa McBee re-enrolled in a small, two-classroom program for openly gay students called The Harvey Milk School. "It was a safe haven for kids that were rejected," said McBee, who graduated in 1999, earned a college scholarship and now studies art history at the State University of New York at Purchase (search). Such successes have moved the city to spend $3.2 million to expand Harvey Milk, begun nearly two decades ago, into a full-fledged public high school for gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender students. The school, believed to be the first of its kind and scope in the nation, expects about 100 students when it opens in its expanded form next month. The expansion, at taxpayers' expense, has drawn opposition from both conservatives and civil libertarians. "If you want to protect them by creating a special school, yank out the bullies and create a special school for them," said Michael Long (search), state Conservative Party chairman. Michael Meyers (search), executive director of the New York Civil Rights Coalition (search), said the school violates city anti-discrimination laws. "They have found now a formula for discriminating — what I call 'voluntary segregation,' to give victims of discrimination their own classroom and own school," Meyers said. One state lawmaker has already filed a lawsuit in state Supreme Court seeking to block the expanded school, arguing that it violates the constitutional rights of other students. State Sen. Ruben Diaz (search) said the school is an improper use of public money, especially when other children in the city's troubled school system have such acute needs. School officials dispute charges of discrimination. Despite its focus, they say, Harvey Milk is open to all students regardless of sexual orientation. And supporters say the school is essential to protect students who have been harassed. Housed in an office building in Manhattan's East Village, Harvey Milk is named after California's first elected gay official — a member of the Board of Supervisors in San Francisco — who was assassinated after less than a year in office. "These students have to hide between classes to survive. They have a right to a safe education," said David Mensah, executive director of the Hetrick-Martin Institute, a gay-rights youth advocacy group. The institute, with the city Department of Education, manages the school. It also provides after-school programs such as art and music, and counseling and support services for as many as 2,000 gay and lesbian students, Mensah said. Harvey Milk isn't pushing a gay agenda, Mensah said, and prides itself on its academic success. Ninety-five percent of the students graduate and 60 percent enroll in college — many of them former dropouts such as McBee. Delinquency is more common among gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender students than others, said Joshua Lamont, a spokesman for the Gay Lesbian and Straight Education Network (search). Such students are more likely than others to drop out of school or contemplate suicide because of harassment, and are targeted by bullies more than other students, he said. In a 2001 survey by the network, 83 percent of gay students reported being harassed at school because of their sexual orientation and nearly 70 percent felt unsafe. The survey was of 904 gay students in 48 states, Lamont said. "Many of these students have been driven from their own home and are homeless," he said. "If they did not have the Harvey Milk school, they would be out on the street." Still, harassment is no reason to segregate students based on sexual orientation, said Norman Siegel, former head of the New York Civil Liberties Union. "When you do this you throw in the towel on integration and turn back the clock," he said. "For almost half a century, as a society we have rejected segregation in favor of integration." McBee, now 23, said the debate over segregation misses the point. Harvey Milk, she said, was open to students of all backgrounds. It taught her self-confidence and steered her toward a fulfilling career in art and music. "There were a lot of kids who turned around" their lives at the school, McBee said. "This was their family."

[ 09-09-2003, 06:34 PM: Message edited by: Chewbacca ]

[Timber Loftis]

If every kid who got swirlees and beatings for being different got a special school, we'd have goth schools, nerd schools, stoner schools -- only the jocks and preps would go to normal school. Isn't that silly?

Howabout we just let kids figure out how to integrate into society while they're young? Prejudice won't end at the High School graduation door, you know.

And howabout we let them figure out some lessons that even grown people need to figure out -- for instance, if you make your sexuality a defining characteristic of self and shove it in people's faces, you WILL get some harsh reactions. Can't we all just grow up? I mean, do you really want to know about my Mary Lou Retton blow-up doll? I didn't think so, so don't bother describing YOUR bedroom antics to me.

[Faceman]

Originally posted by Chewbacca: Tell that to the trans-gender kid who, after daily swirlies and beatings in the the bathroom and threats that if he tells he will be dead, finally has a place where he can go to the bathroom with out fearing the throngs of junior gang bangers just itching to kick somebodies ass. We are talking an American inner-city school district here...The types of environments that inspired movies like Lean On Me and The Principal. It's an admirable idea that people can learn from diversity as well as adversity, but if the darn kettle is whistling you gotta take it off the oven or the water will boil over.

Anybody ever thought of actually punishing the bullies for their actions?
We have harassement laws, don't they apply at high school?
It is tragic if Klanmembers beat up an African-American. What is even more tragic is if as a result they go free and the victim is sent to another state. Physical abuse is a crime! And if people commit that at high-school age it is still a crime! And common practice in a society should be to punish the culprits and NOT to send away the victims so that the culprits can't strike. Or do you want to tell me that these bullies are so mighty that the law can't touch them?

[ 09-09-2003, 06:54 PM: Message edited by: Faceman ]

[Chewbacca]

Originally posted by Faceman: Anybody ever thought of actually punishing the bullies for their actions? We have harassement laws, don't they apply at high school? It is tragic if Klanmembers beat up an African-American. What is even more tragic is if as a result they go free and the victim is sent to another state. Physical abuse is a crime! And if people commit that at high-school age it is still a crime! And common practice in a society should be to punish the culprits and NOT to send away the victims so that the culprits can't strike. Or do you want to tell me that these bullies are so mighty that the law can't touch them?

Well evidently not much is being done to take care of the bullies or this school would have become so successful over the last 20 years that they needed to expand. I would love to see the bullies taken care of, but it seems that treating gays poorly at school doesnt warrant very much attention of the school authorities or the victim's are too scared of retribution to complain.

[Chewbacca]

Originally posted by Timber Loftis: If every kid who got swirlees and beatings for being different got a special school, we'd have goth schools, nerd schools, stoner schools -- only the jocks and preps would go to normal school. Isn't that silly? Howabout we just let kids figure out how to integrate into society while they're young? Prejudice won't end at the High School graduation door, you know. And howabout we let them figure out some lessons that even grown people need to figure out -- for instance, if you make your sexuality a defining characteristic of self and shove it in people's faces, you WILL get some harsh reactions. Can't we all just grow up? I mean, do you really want to know about my Mary Lou Retton blow-up doll? I didn't think so, so don't bother describing YOUR bedroom antics to me.

So your saying it is okay for the striaght couple to dance at the school dance or hold hands in the hallway, but if a gay couple does that its shoving sexuality in your face. Come on. How about letting them learn the lesson that they deserve to get an education in a safe enviroment and deserve to be treated with respect and dignity. How teaching the lesson that bulling and discrimination IS NOT OKAY and that the powers that be will protect them BY ANY MEANS NECCESSARY. How about those lessons?

[Chewbacca]

Is bullying okay? It is part of the rites of passage of being in high school in America or am I reading some peoples posts wrong? I guess if you can live with thoughts of suicide and low self-esteem and in constant fear then bullying is just fine. Shut down the school and send the kids back to the wolves. Real nice.

[Cloudbringer]

Originally posted by Rokenn: personally I thing they should just send the bullies, haters to their 'special' school. Formally known as juvenile hall [img]smile.gif[/img] TL, Just checking you do know who Harvey Milk is right?

That's the way it should be, but I guess these people didn't feel it worked. Still I too, feel it will cause more problems than it solves to start segregating high schools in any way.

[Faceman]

Well mayber bullying is a tradition in the US. It's not here in Austria. Of course we got bullies too but when it comes to physical abuse it's teachers conference and expulsion after the third incident (if not sooner). And it is not necessary for the victims to squeal because teachers notice if a kid is being bullied the hard way and take action.
This extends to bullying outside of school too (no: "I'll meet you outside")
I cannot recall more than three incidents during my schooltime that were not followed by expulsion of the bullies (in these cases they stopped bullying after the second warning).
Where were they expelled to? First to another school in case their behaviour was because of private feuds. If they continued there they were expelled to a special school where teachers also work on their violence issues.
So it's not that hard. Send the bullies to bully-school because it's them who need to sort their issues out if they can't function in a society/school without resorting to violence.