Oh! The little devils are dead!

[harleyquinn]

I (this is my opinion, based on interviews I've seen on TV) believe the reason they were celebrating is not that they were celebrating death. They were celebrating the fact that they finally felt like they might actually be free. I've heard that the Iraqi people have been feeling that as long as Saddam and his sons are out there, that the party would come back into power sooner or later and therefore they didn't want to help the Americans for fear of the same type of retaliation that occured after the first Gulf war. With the death of these 2 sons, it made the idea that the regime's power is actually gone for good more real.

[Chewbacca]

Forget any intelligence the four may offer alive, haul out the tow missles and call in the warthogs. Forget staking the place out and moving on them in a vunerable position where capture is at least possible, kick in the door and yipee ki yae mutha...hush your mouth [img]tongue.gif[/img]

Wild West justice at its finest. No need for a trial, jury, or judge. We have the media to tell us how evil they are, so fire all you got and we'll all be happy.

[Masklinn]

Weird, I haven't seen any Iraqis celebrating. In fact I've seen a lot of them shaking head in disbelief or mourning the loss. Ah, right, I'm in France and since the beginning of all this mess we didnt get the same images/points of view.

Anyway, I agree with The HIerophant there, rejoicing on someone's death is not a very good thing. Well, it's in fact something I just can't understand. Even if there were monsters. Think about it, did they get any chance or been raised in a way that gave them any chance not to be monsters ?

[johnny]

Originally posted by Masklinn: Weird, I haven't seen any Iraqis celebrating. In fact I've seen a lot of them shaking head in disbelief or mourning the loss. Ah, right, I'm in France and since the beginning of all this mess we didnt get the same images/points of view. Anyway, I agree with The HIerophant there, rejoicing on someone's death is not a very good thing. Well, it's in fact something I just can't understand. Even if there were monsters. Think about it, did they get any chance or been raised in a way that gave them any chance not to be monsters ?

You're talking about a guy, who had all the players of the Iraqi national footballteam whipped, after a dissapointing 0-0 draw. You're also talking about the guy who tortured athletes when they didn't perform the way he wanted them to perform.

Are you sure you can't understand why people would celebrate ?

Does this also mean that you can't understand why EVERY romanian went celebrating in the streets when they saw Ceauscescu's elimination on TV ?

Cause i defenitely can understand it.

[Masklinn]

Wait a second Johnny, I was talking about you guys. Not the Iraqis. They have indeed a lot more reasons than you to rejoice over their deaths. But as I said, I haven't seen them celebrating, weird how we don't have the same news.

[johnny]

Originally posted by Masklinn: Wait a second Johnny, I was talking about you guys. Not the Iraqis. They have indeed a lot more reasons than you to rejoice over their deaths. But as I said, I haven't seen them celebrating, weird how we don't have the same news.

Oh, sorry Masklinn.

I didn't see celebrations either, but there was a connection with a BBC reporter who was live on the spot. he has been there during the whole 6 hours of the siege and for some time after it was over. That's when he reported that people were coming out of their houses and started shooting in the air.

[Cloudbringer]

Originally posted by Chewbacca: Forget any intelligence the four may offer alive, haul out the tow missles and call in the warthogs. Forget staking the place out and moving on them in a vunerable position where capture is at least possible, kick in the door and yipee ki yae mutha...hush your mouth [img]tongue.gif[/img] Wild West justice at its finest. No need for a trial, jury, or judge. We have the media to tell us how evil they are, so fire all you got and we'll all be happy.

Uh, sorry, but I doubt that you'd get much 'intelligence' info out of that bunch! Even so, I don't celebrate killing, but I do think the 'freedom' this represents is one that the Iraqi people probably feel quite keenly. Having been under the boots of several vicious men, they have every right to be reserved when told they are 'free' if the people who kept them terrified and oppressed are still running around. With these two gone, things may move forward, faster. More Iraqis may decide it IS safe to help the new order there.

[harleyquinn]

My understanding is that for the exact reason of getting intelligence, they were trying to take them alive, but that they met resistence from those in the house. As it is, this operation took about 6 hours, so it's not like they just went over them and bombed them at first.

[ 07-23-2003, 09:46 AM: Message edited by: harleyquinn ]

[Chewbacca]

Ah, but what serves the skeptical Iraqi's mindset better? Alive in custody with justice to be served by the new goverment? Or being told dead by the U.S. occupiers? Dead like this makes them martyrs who died bravely fighting the invaders.

The youngest of the bunch was what 16-17? He may have cracked under sleep deprivation, bright lights, and relentess interogation. Harder men have cracked under less. Perhaps we could have gotten some help from our allies in the region that practice more torturous methods of gaining info. Perhaps we would know where the head of the snake(saddam) is lying today if things were executed differently yesterday. Alas, hindsight is 20/20 but this does fit the trend of "kick the door in and shoot, ask questions later."

All I am saying is considering the possibilities this seems like a partial victory, less than its full potential. Sorry to steal anyones thunder.

[Attalus]

Oh, I'd definitely rather have taken them alive, and, I am sure, so would CENTCOM. Seeing those two walk the Perp Walk and stand trial would have been fine.