Worth Buying?

[EEWorzelle]

Descidado - sounds good!

It seems to me that we are 99% in agreement about things not style related.

I would rank Wizardry 8 tied for top of the line for categories 1, 5 and 6, and the very, very best for category #4. For every player who trashes a particular character type such as the Gadgeteer or Ninja, there is some other player that uses that one as the favorite cornerstone in their parties. Every character can range from lousy to superb, depending upon the rest of the party, style of play and whether short or longer term development goals are pursued. Replay is excellent.

Regarding 3, yeah there is an SF element. I do not mind that, but don't actually like it. The Might and Magic games contained just as much of that, IMO.

Regarding #2, I see now, much better than ever before, where you are coming from. If I remember your earlier posts, you didn't have the wizfast utility when you played.

After several games I do not find the combat the least bit slow, other than a few battles per game, less than five percent. Part of that might be because I go with magic-heavy parties, so have to set up which spell my characters cast, every round. There is a lot of strategy for this, depending on the opposing creatures range, position, status and natural resistances. The time after pressing the combat-start button is relatively a small portion of the battle time (except those few). However, magic is so powerful in this game that the opponents are essentially gone after two rounds of battle, which makes combat fast and decisive (usually). Also, I am very interested in the way monsters move, to be able to predict, in future battles, where they will actually be when my magic spells fire.

Regarding other veteran players, outside of this board, I would honestly call complaints about the combat speed rare. Some Wizardry 7 veterans have pointed out that there are longer and more involved battles in Wizardry 8, compared to 7, but fewer of them. On the other hand, Jersey is certainly an example of a very experienced player using that utility. I know that other experienced players here, such as Gimli, use it. Perhaps more of those posting on hother boards use it but never talk about it.

I will probably try the wizfast utility at some point to compare. The one game on your list I haven't played yet is MW. I can't afford a new computer right now and my current one doesn't qualify. I loved Daggerfall, even though I prefer choosing parties over single character or recruiting them.

The BG series was good, but out of your six criteria I felt 1 was impeded by story-imposed linearity and 4 and 5 were restricted somewhat by strictly following the DandD rules. I know and respect that others thought those things were great. It's not that these were bad, even in my opinion, more like good instead of excellent. I definitely prefer the role playing mode of first person, like Might and Magic, Wizardry, Daggerfall and Ultima. The feeling that you are actually there is... awesome! I also have trouble enjoying the little blobs on the screen, their movement foibles, and thinking of that as my party. I find the fact of having to worry about hitting your own party with spells or projectiles annoying, more realistic perhaps, but annoying nevertheless.

Happy gaming, whatever you play!!

[jsalsb]

Combat speed never bothered me. There aren't too many long drawn out combats, so when I do encounter them I relish them! No winfast. I've been playing crpg's since wizardry I (I started off hooked on zork!), and I haven't enjoyed a game as much as wiz8 in a long time (although I play nowhere nearly as many games as most of you have tried). I find the combat flow very different from wiz7 and even from W&W (which has it's own unique definition of "phased" combat --a noble experiment that I'm not all together sure succeeded, but I can see where DWB was going...). My favorite thing about wiz8 is its balance, and how it very intelligently grows with your party (until you near 30th level, where you simply overpower everything, and sleep in the open at ascension peak to lure djinn of the blade for exp! (small rofl). but only dweebs like me keep playing long after the plot has ended. Buy it, play it, love it, move on.

PS check out www.gamasutra.com's designer's notebook column for some great discussions on game design, and especially game balance.

[ 03-15-2003, 12:29 AM: Message edited by: jsalsb ]

[Dobian]

This is my first time through the game, and I am about 80% or so done with it. This is the first and only Wizardry game I've ever played, but I've played several CRPGs, including Fallout 1 and 2, Might and Magic 6-8, Arcanum, and Planescape: Torment. I agree with many of the good and bad comments about this game. More side quests and options to avoid combat (like better stealth, and more wide open areas as opposed to the persistent "tunnel" design...man, trying to get up the hill to the mines with my level 11 characters was a nightmare!) would have helped, as opposed to the constant "we are going to make you fight, and you will fight or die trying" mentality that permeates this game. But, I have stuck with it, and while not my favorite CRPG, it has a lot going for it, like all the great spoken dialog. And once you finally get your characters beefed up enough, combat actually becomes fun, as opposed to the first half of the game where you spend a lot of your time running for your life. Lots of cool areas, but again, I wish you could explore more in this game instead of just running into the next set of spawned monsters. Combat itself is technically superb in the way it is implemented, and the many visual and audio effects are terrific. This is a hard game to get into at first, and I wish some things were done differently, but it pays off later in the game.

[snooch_dawg]

Dobian brought up an interesting point. This game is ahrd to get into at first. But ever since wiz I way back all wiz games have been IMHO like that. Wiz games always killed you the most often, wiz games had those awful puzzles that could stick you in one spot for hours, wiz games always had some really tough foozles that would kill you the first 7 times you fought them. Heck, at least you can save when you are in the dungeons now [img]smile.gif[/img]

[Desdicado]

Guys, I'm really enjoying this thread, we've all given our opinions respectfully and politely, it's great!.

I think we can agree on lots of things like lots of control over your characters, a lot in the game for really hands on players, a lot in the game for fans of puzzles.

We may just have to disagree on the combat system (is it great or is it too slow?).
and the overland areas (are they great with a lot of freedom, or are they big tunnels with unscalable walls on each side?).

Also is Sci fi good in an RPG or not?. Is there too much combat?

Such is life, at least we've all stayed with the RPG genre which is my favourite format and has been since the 80's with my Commodore 128, Amiga600, Amiga 1200 and then 3 PCs!.

I wouldn't be the one to put anyone off this game, all I can say is it just wasn't the game for me!

Incidentally, check out http://aw.localhost.ee/aw/category/5.html if you like Old RPGs, I've got Drakken, yes Drakkhen!, Ultima 7, Might and Magic 3, Lands of lore and Ravenloft recently. All of which run and most of which I've been able to get sound with, (still working on the last 2).
These games are almost as much fun as 10 / 15 years ago.

[ 03-19-2003, 05:22 AM: Message edited by: Desdicado ]

[Heatmiser]

My 2c

Wizardry I was probably one of the first (if not the first) CRPG that I ever played (probably second to Ultima 1). They would have had to severely mess with the game for me not to like it. With that said, I just got my party to Arnika (after several reloads from the first group of 6 Higardi Highwaymen!-they surrounded me!) So far, I love the game! One of my favorite things is the Eastern-type chars of the Sam Monk and Ninja- that you don't see in many other CRPGs. I also love the detailed skills and the char advancement system (in all the Wiz games) The combat can definitely be difficult (when I returned to the Monestery to rest and got ambushed by 5 poison seekers and 3 seekers that I wasn't expecting). I can already look ahead to replaying with a new party configuration/ different classes, etc. I probably played Wiz 7 like 6 or 7 times all the way, or almost all the way through. From what I see so far, I have no reason to doubt that I will do the same with Wiz 8.
BTW I loved both BG1 and BG2, all of the Ultimas and am looking forward to NWN too.
My final plug for Wiz 8- I just got it over the Internet (and a few stores) for (drumroll please!) $19.99 US! Great bargain for such a game.

[snooch_dawg]

Desdicado,

Thanks for that great link. It's been bookmarked already [img]smile.gif[/img]

FYI to those who care... if you are an ethical, righteous person several of the games on that site are still under copyright:

Anything by Interplay - Bard's Tale series, Dragon Wars etc.
Anything by Microprose - Darklands

And I "believe" M&M 5 is also still being sold and marketed by 3D0...

So... that's my bit of do-gooding for the year... I'm gonna go download darklands now [img]smile.gif[/img]