The Archer's Tragedy

[tower]

I think that a good alternative for the archer is the general archer class, found it Tactics Mod (i think); it's an archer in fighter class (sorta speak(, so i believe he would be better than a kensai with bows!

[Alson]

Originally posted by weimer: Even with Normal Impaler, spears are a poor choice in SoA (and/or ToB) compared to, say, Scimitars or Two-Handers.

I expected to see Flails or Katanas, here. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

Throwing Impaler is good. It's in the same general ballpark as Carso, Ages, Fury, Magi, Foebane, Firetooth, etc. It's not as good as Ages, Fury, Magi or Foebane in my opinion, actually.

I second that.

It's a strong weapon, but it's not the strongest. It's competitive. It gives you a reason to pick spears but does not make them the best choice.

Which brings me to my next point... Bloodbane,

*shivers

or, in it's second name, the weapon of mass casual disembowelment (and thank you Butterfingers for that lovely description). Yeah, it's two handed. Yeah, it's a tough fight. Yeah, it's been done prior to Item Upgrades. But it's still needs to be toned down, in my opinion.

Why, you ask? You see... A ranged 1D6 +5 +STR Bonus weapon is decent, but not that hot. Adding it +1 ApR makes it mighty (a la Fire Tooth +3). Adding it 6 poison damage over the course of 6 seconds per hit makes it very powerful indeed (Spell Disruption and the like...). Now, adding it Fury-like Stun (!) makes it simply unbalancing.

[Dundee Slaytern]

Originally posted by tower: I think that a good alternative for the archer is the general archer class, found it Tactics Mod (i think); it's an archer in fighter class (sorta speak(, so i believe he would be better than a kensai with bows!

Jim and I discussed it above already, and the Kensai still wins with Throwing Spears.

[SixOfSpades]

Originally posted by weimer: ...I can't really imagine "graceful aerodynamics" associated with someone hurling a three-foot axe about seven yards away and having it magically return to their hand (3 times a round!), hilt-first! But it happens in BG2. A normal longbow is usually about six feet tall -- often taller than the archer (especially if it's an elf!). I can't really imagine anyone fitting two or three of those "in their backpack" ... but it happens in BG2.

So....you're using the physical inconsistencies that BioWare hard-coded into the game as justification for making an overpowered spear? Yes, it does seem truly bizarre that a Ring and a suit of Full Plate take up exactly the same amount of room in your Inventory, but we have no control over that sort of thing. Dundee's point that if you do have some control over an item or its use, you have a moral obligation to make it realistic. Just because AD&D rules state that a 4-foot Halfling can use a 6-foot Composite Longbow does not grant MODders carte blanche to create the equivalent of an AK-47.

MODs should be made with logic, roleplay, realism, AND fun gameplay in mind, not just items that enable to sleepwalk through the game. (Equip a Kensai with Throwing Impaler, learn a few Greater Whirlwinds, let the AI do the rest.)

Throwing Impaler is good. It's in the same general ballpark as Carso, Ages, Fury, Magi, Foebane, Firetooth, etc. It's not as good as Ages, Fury, Magi or Foebane in my opinion, actually. It's a strong weapon, but it's not the strongest. It's competitive. It gives you a reason to pick spears but does not make them the best choice.

Throwing Impaler is good? No, the Throwing Spear of the Unicorn is good. In all honesty, weimer....when some of the most respected names on a forum like this all state that an item is so overpowered that they will NEVER perform that upgrade, that should really tell you something.

It's all right to create powerful items, as there are indeed people who need them out there. But there is such as thing as going too far. Perhaps if you took the most powerful items and only had them enabled if Tactics is installed as well?

[Dundee Slaytern]

I thought about it for a while, and just want to know what the others think of this?

Ingredients:
----
Impaler +3
Halcyon Spear +1
Cloak of Reflection
Rogue Stone
20,000 Gold

Impaler +4

The Impaler has a palpable aura of magic that hints at the vicious nature of the weapon and why it has been a favorite of several powerful orc chieftains in the past. When a victim is struck they are, as one would guess, very nearly impaled, run through as the massive enchantment does its dirty work. This weapon has been upgraded by < CHARNAME > into a vorpal weapon.

STATISTICS

Equipped Abilities: Immunity to Electricity( aka +100% Electrical Resistance)

Combat Abilities: 15% chance for each hit whereby the opponent must save vs death with a -4 penalty or suffer instant death.

THAC0: +4 bonus
Damage: 1D6 +4, +10 piercing damage, +4 electrical damage
Damage type: piercing
Weight: 3
Speed Factor: 3
Proficiency Type: Spear
Type: 2-handed
Requires: 5 Strength
Not Usable By:
Cleric
Mage
Thief

----

I think it can be justified as a vorpal weapon. The idea of being 'impaled' by this bad mofo and dying in one hit is certainly plausible, and even if you survive, your guts are still spilling out all over the place due to the inherent mega damage.

As always, comments are welcome. [img]smile.gif[/img]

[ 03-07-2003, 03:06 PM: Message edited by: Dundee Slaytern ]

[Rataxes]

So was that a sarcastic joke Dundee? [img]smile.gif[/img]

(the spear is grossly overpowered)

[Dundee Slaytern]

Originally posted by Rataxes: So was that a sarcastic joke Dundee? [img]smile.gif[/img] (the spear is grossly overpowered)

????

No, I was proposing an alternative. Did I make the % chance for instant death too high? I was comparing it to other vorpal weapons, mainly the Silver Sword and the Ravager.

[Rataxes]

Edit:

Just realized that it wasn't a throwing spear you were proposing.

Well in that case, I'd have to say that's quite alright. Better than the Ravager I think, for a quite cheap list of ingredients as well, but definitely not game-breaking like the Bloodbane or Throwing Impaler.

[ 03-07-2003, 02:54 PM: Message edited by: Rataxes ]

[Dundee Slaytern]

What if I tweak it to 10%? This will make the vorpal ability on par with the Axe of Unyielding +5 which is a one-handed weapon.

[ 03-07-2003, 02:56 PM: Message edited by: Dundee Slaytern ]

[Rataxes]

Hmmm, what you could do is lower the chance to 10% and increase the save penalty to -6. I think that should give it an average chance of 5-6% vs the average ToB monster without any outer circumstances. It does more average damage than the Ravager, pierces Stoneskins and is easier to assemble, so having a slightly lower vorpal chance is justified.

[ 03-07-2003, 03:06 PM: Message edited by: Rataxes ]