new party for BG2

[Kyrvias]

By the time a swashbuckler gets the "Use-any-item" HLA, they are far better than a fighter thief of the same level.

At level wenty, strip your fighter thief and swashbuckler naked. If both had a DEX of 18, the base armor class for the Swashbuckler would be 1, while the F/T would be 6.

Plus, once you get the aformentioned HLA, you can wear any armor. And swashbucklers don't really stealth so...

[Cam_H]

I'm not quite as firm as Krunchy on this one, but when compared to a Fighter / Thief multiclass, the Swashie does get;

• Fewer attacks per round,
• Fewer hit points,
• No Warrior HLAs, such as; Greater Whirlwinds, Critical Strikes, Hardiness, and
• No backstabbing

I think that it's a lot to give up for a marginally better THAC0 and a reasonably better AC at the high levels.

[timothy trotter]

thanks for all your suggestions, but i think ill play the swashbuckler. I think ill give him the human flesh armour. celestial fury, and blackrazor when i get to hell.
Exp wise, should i set about rescuing imoen as soon as i can? i will have to go and pick up anomen, and then go aquire edwin, and get the theif guild for myself. Then i might have enough money to go save her. i think ill kill the litch in the bridge, by stealing his daystar and running away. if i dont have enough money i guess i could to the skinner murder, so i can get the human flesh...

[Kyrvias]

Those ar some good choices. I wou,d recomend bumping your CHA as high as you can, save a ring slot for something more... useful.

[Cam_H]

Timothy,

Swashbuckler over a Fighter/Thief, eh?

I think that you've generally got the right idea; work out what you think that you'll need, and then go directly after that stuff, and then line up your experience points for after you rescue Imoen (Chapter 6).

Note that Daystar is not in the Bridge District.

Massive spoilers and cheese in blank area below - Ctrl-A or click-and-drag-over to reveal;

Given you're playing a Thief, for some reason you've chosen a single class Thief - you can use Potions of Master Thievery to secure a heap of stuff from the Merchants at Athkatla (and Trademeet if you want), and re-charge your Wands. Gorch in Mae'Var's Guildhall has a lot of these potions in stock. I'd buy them, as you don't want to wreck that quest before getting Edwin.

I'd look at doing the following quests in no particular order:

Secure the Ring of Human Influence - there should be few problems with the Circus Tent. If you want to secure the magical sword that dispels Aerie's ilusion, you can set traps for the Orcs on the ground floor if you want to avoid melee. Use stealth to bypass the nasties on the middle floor, and focus all attacks on Kalah on the top floor. (Did I really need to tell you this?)

Secure Arbane's Sword - the Suna Seni battle in a backstreet should be easy enough. The mage's Lightning Bolt and Eldarin's archery are your biggest threats here. A 'Horror' Bhaalskill should be enough to deal with 50% of this threat right off the bat. The 'Charm Person' from the Ring of Human Influence is another possibility.

Secure the Tuigan Short Bow - make your way to the back rooms of the Copper Coronet. Lay some traps, haste the party to shut the doors on the animals after the dialogue, again with the 'Horror' Bhaalskill, etc.

Secure Ilbratha - use the PC to defeat the Umar Hills' Mimic with the aid of a couple of Protection from Acid scrolls plus Arbane's Sword. Potions of Extra Healing may be needed, but you should be able to get the blood and get Jermien's reward easily enough.

Secure the Flail of Ages - it's a big XP earner, but you can still get the Flail without completing much of the de'Arnise Keep quest. A Yuan-Ti mage and Glacias are your two main concerns. There are lots of ways of dealing with both of these fights, but you should be able to draw each into traps as one option.

Secure the Shadow Armor, Edwin's Services, Short Sword of Backstabbing - as you've noted on your own list, complete the Mae'Var quest as you might as well get the rewards at the end including the Stronghold. I find that Rayic Gethras' house is the trouble spot here; the Mephits are easily dealt with if you've got at least 100% fire resistance and a 'Horror' Bhaalskill, the Golums with Ilbratha's Mirror Image + one or two Potions of Absorption, and Rayic himself can be drawn into traps on the middle floor, or you can use one party member to fight him who's taken a Potion of Magic Shielding, as just a couple of easy options. A couple of buffs and the Flail of Ages might be all you need however.

Secure the Improved Mace of Disruption - dealing with Neb in the Deralict House might be your biggest problem with this one, but if you've got Daystar to deal with the sprits and Ilbratha to deal with the backstabbling, getting the Illithium shouldn't be much of an issue. Anomen's Sanctuary can be used to get the Mace itself in Chapter 3 once you've got to the last of Aran's tasks.

Secure Belm - this one's possibly less pressing, and just about futile if your PC has not put points in Scimitars, but you can commence one of the Trademeet quests that will put the Druid Grove on the map, and simply use your Swashbuckler's stealth to sneak through the Grove, pick up Belm, and head back the way to came to meet up with your other party member(s).

Theft - consume three or four Potions of Master Thievery, and pickpocket Ribald and Tolgerias, and visit Roger as well as the Armorer / Fletcher. How far you're prepared to go on this one is up to you. I've found that both Gorch and particularly Bernard commonly catch you if you try to steal more than about four items, but that's just my experience. While the Trademeet merchants do have some useful stuff if you've restored trade there, I think you could hold off until Chapter 6 before dealing with them.

Purchase - Consider the Robe of the Good Archmagi (Trademeet) for Imoen if you want Edwin to take the Robe of Vecna (another purchasable). The Robe of the Evil Archmagi for Edwin is however stealable from Ust Natha. For Anomen, I've found the Reflection Shield to be handy at times, while the Shield of Balduran will save a lot of effort with any Beholder fight. The Girdle of Hill Giant Strength, Bracers of Defence AC3, Vhailor's Helm, are all useful, but hardly mandatory to get through the first half of the game. Some people who play classes that can only wear leather armor do like Aeger's Hide for your PC. Joluv's Defender of Easthaven could be one for Anomen.

[Kyrvias]

Sadly, if you are a single classed thief, and want the guild, you cannot get the Short Sword of backstabbing.

[Cam_H]

Sorry Kyrvias, I deleted my earlier post and rephrased it as a new post, while you replied in-between. Posts therefore might appear out of order.

On the Ring of Human Influence, you can certainly boost Charisma for your Swashbuckler by sacrificing Wisdom (as much as you want), Constitution (down to 16), and Intelligence (down to 10 or 9 ... depending on how fearful you are of Flayers and whether Baldurdash prevents you from using some items that require average intelligence or better). I occasionally use the 'Charm Person' function.

On the Short Sword of Backstabbing ... ah! Good point! Just goes to show how often I play Thieves.

[timothy trotter]

thanks guys you are really helpful.
Aegers hide does sound like a good option, its got an AC of 3, which is nice.

should i rescue imoen as soon as i can afford it? (after getting edwin and anomen possibly doin de'arnise keep for flail and money)

I might take minsc along too, he is always a laugh, and should help my lack in tanking skills

[krunchyfrogg]

Originally posted by Kyrvias: By the time a swashbuckler gets the "Use-any-item" HLA, they are far better than a fighter thief of the same level. At level wenty, strip your fighter thief and swashbuckler naked. If both had a DEX of 18, the base armor class for the Swashbuckler would be 1, while the F/T would be 6. Plus, once you get the aformentioned HLA, you can wear any armor. And swashbucklers don't really stealth so...

This seems like a good point, but it's just plain unrealistic. There is no time that you will be stripped of any equipment in this game. The F/T will beat the swashy at any point in the game.

note: this is all from a powergamers POV.

[Kyrvias]

Dually noted.

Then I will rest my point at this. Swashbucklers level up faster than F/T throughout SoA, but when you reach ToB, they are about equal.

[ 11-20-2005, 09:08 PM: Message edited by: Kyrvias ]