Ineffective Spell's.

[Pop 'n Fresh]

I agree with alot of the things on your list. 1 of the things they should change is entangle, web and any other slowing spell. I know that there are some spells like Free Will ( i think it's called that ) that allow u to walk through movement unhindered but stll if ur party casts a spell i think they should be immune to that, with some exceptions of course.

1 thing i definently think is FFFFFF">gooey is goodberries. Why waste a spell slot for 5 hp. 5 HP!! it would be alot easier and quicker if u just slept outside and u wouldn't have to waste a spell slot. Yes sometimes u get ambushed by monsters or thugs but u can just kill them and sleep again.

1 other thing, alot of spells that require your mage to either touch or get really close to an enemy is very FFFFFF">gooey.

I don't know about every single spell as of yet as this is the first time i have ever played.

FFFFFF">DSlaytern] Mind your language. We have members of all creeds.

[ 02-15-2005, 05:43 AM: Message edited by: Dundee Slaytern ]

[Dundee Slaytern]

Originally posted by SixOfSpades: Protection from Petrification: Dang useful in BG1. But you can't even cheat a Basilisk into BG2 without crashing the game. And you can't use it against Beholders because of their Anti-Magic Rays.

Combine with Spell Shield.

Knock / Find Traps: Dude, where's my Thief? So far, the only use that Knock has is opening the bugged chests that can't be opened any other way (such as the one in the Jysstev Estate).

This is not fair to the spell, as its' usefulness depends on the presence of a Thief in the party. Knock is an useful spell.

Wizard Eye / Farsight: Invisible scouting is what Thieves and Rangers are for, not valuable spell slots.

Not when you want summons to fight for you, and/or the enemy can see through invisibility.

Tenser's Transformation: I am a Mage. It will double my hitpoints (hoo boy), grant me a -4 AC bonus (that would be nice if I could wear Plate, too), and improve my THAC0 so that I can hit people with my stick a bit more efficiently than before....but still at only 1 attack per round. And I can't cast any more spells, either. Yeah. No, the only people who have any business casting this are Fighter/Mages.

Again, this is subjective.

Glitterdust: If it did what it said and actually PREVENTED the victim(s) from going Invisible for the spell's duration, it would be interesting enough to be useful.

It's a level 2 spell, not level 6. [img]tongue.gif[/img] Thanks to Glitterdust, Edwin and his ilk have some basic means of dispelling invisibility.

Contagion: The main power of this spell is that the effects are permanent. Given the average lifespan of things that turn Hostile to you, I fail to see the appeal.

That's not Contagion's problem, as any Cheeser who uses stat kills will attest. The problem with Contagion is that it is a touch spell.

False Dawn / Sunray: Useful when in item form, but the long casting time and short range make this practically a touch-damage spell, with high chance of being disrupted halfway through.

That's what frontliners are for. I never had a problem casting these spells when I played with a party.

[Harkoliar]

Originally posted by Pop 'n Fresh: I agree with alot of the things on your list. 1 of the things they should change is entangle, web and any other slowing spell. I know that there are some spells like Free Will ( i think it's called that ) that allow u to walk through movement unhindered but stll if ur party casts a spell i think they should be immune to that, with some exceptions of course. 1 thing i definently think is FFFFFF">gooey is goodberries. Why waste a spell slot for 5 hp. 5 HP!! it would be alot easier and quicker if u just slept outside and u wouldn't have to waste a spell slot. Yes sometimes u get ambushed by monsters or thugs but u can just kill them and sleep again. 1 other thing, alot of spells that require your mage to either touch or get really close to an enemy is very FFFFFF">gooey. I don't know about every single spell as of yet as this is the first time i have ever played. FFFFFF">DSlaytern] Mind your language. We have members of all creeds.

good berries is seriously stupid for its lvl .. i think there is a mod that gives it better hp pts .. like critical heals depending on levels though [img]smile.gif[/img] .

[SixOfSpades]

Originally posted by Dundee Slaytern: quote: Wizard Eye / Farsight: Invisible scouting is what Thieves and Rangers are for, not valuable spell slots.

Not when you want summons to fight for you, and/or the enemy can see through invisibility.[/QUOTE]What do you mean? Any Summon will attack enemies for you, even if you just send them into a room in "Fire & Forget" mode. Sending an invisible party member to follow along behind them & direct their actions is safe even against enemies that can see through invisibility, since almost all enemies will simply attack whatever's nearest.

Saying that the usefulness of Knock, Farsight and Wizard Eye should be independent of the presence of a Thief is like saying that the usefulness of a Thief should be independent of Knock, Farsight, and Wizard Eye. Which, of course, boils down to "Which is better, using a party slot for a Thief, or using spellslots to approximate some things that a Thief can do?"
Advantage: Thief, no question. Anyone who builds a party without a competent Thief is just asking for trouble. Sorry to all you soloists out there.

Sure, your Cleric might be left alone long enough to cast False Dawn or Sunray, and then sprint up to where some bad guys are before the spell's oh-so-short duration expires, and maybe some Undead will die from your efforts. Or maybe the Warriors in your party will have slain all the Undead while you were fiddling with spells, and you might have been wiser to buff them up with things like Chaotic Commands and Regeneration.

As for Protection from Petrification + Spell Shield, you might as well just make it SI:Alteration + Spell Shield instead, to free you from the Slow and Hold spells.

Re: Glitterdust vs. True Sight. Even with three people in your party running True Sights simultaneously, Draconis will still go Invisible and still cause you to waste your spells. It would be nice if the sparkling dust produced by the spell actually made the target(s) immune to Invisibility for the duration, as implied in the Spell Description.

[Cerek]

Originally posted by SixOfSpades: Re: Glitterdust vs. True Sight. Even with three people in your party running True Sights simultaneously, Draconis will still go Invisible and still cause you to waste your spells. It would be nice if the sparkling dust produced by the spell actually made the target(s) immune to Invisibility for the duration, as implied in the Spell Description.

Now see, I didn't know that about Glitterdust. I have Kelsey in my current party and that is one of the spells he has learned. I was planning to actually give it a try for the first time to see how effective it was against invisibility and hiding thieves.

As Six pointed out, I thought Glitterdust basically made targets immune to Invisibility for the duration of the spell.

Fortunately, Kelsey doesn't have to "waste" a spell slot on the spell. I can always choose to cast a different spell.

[Imrahil]

Enhanced Goodberries is a component of SimDing0's Tweak Pack. Here is a list of all the components (the download link is at the bottom of the list), but the change to Goodberries is...

"
/----------------------------------
| Component 1: Enhanced Goodberries
\----------------------------------
The Goodberries spell was effectively useless in the original game. The ability to consume an item in combat and heal 1 hit point is pointless when you're level 30. This component causes the amount of hit points healed by Goodberries to increase with levels.
The progression is as follows:

Level Hit Points Healed
3 (or less)...1
6 ...............3
9 ...............5
12..............7
15..............9
18.............11
21.............13

I do not consider this too overpowered for a level 2 spell, but it may retain some purpose, while being less useful in most circumstances than healing spells or potions. "

- Imrahil

[Aelia Jusa]

Originally posted by SixOfSpades: Know Alignment: Why oh why does it turn the recipient Hostile? No matter the result?

I assumed it was because the recipient didn't appreciate having some strange armed party cast a spell on them, assuming also that they can tell if a spell is being cast on them. I suppose a good or neutral character may be more likely to say 'hey, what's doing here with the spell?' but I think they'd be on their guard a little in any case.

I don't like any of the cause wounds spells because they never work. Also sunfire is totally crap for a non-solo because, even worse than fireball, you don't aim it is just emanates from the caster - bye bye party members. And meteor swarm is a big disappointment - by that time I will also have comet with TOB which won't fry my party (ah comet. How do I love thee?)

I liked false dawn. I cast it amidst some vampires and it did a super job. Admittedly my caster had the robe of vecna and the amulet that speeds casting time, so that may have helped.

[Dundee Slaytern]

Originally posted by SixOfSpades: What do you mean? Any Summon will attack enemies for you, even if you just send them into a room in "Fire & Forget" mode. Sending an invisible party member to follow along behind them & direct their actions is safe even against enemies that can see through invisibility, since almost all enemies will simply attack whatever's nearest.

The AI for such creatures is usually not so simple-minded, especially if you play with Mods. Also, being able to see what your summons are doing will enable you to make them battle smarter. Not all summons have the duration of Animate Dead, you will want to maximise their usage.

Saying that the usefulness of Knock, Farsight and Wizard Eye should be independent of the presence of a Thief is like saying that the usefulness of a Thief should be independent of Knock, Farsight, and Wizard Eye. Which, of course, boils down to "Which is better, using a party slot for a Thief, or using spellslots to approximate some things that a Thief can do?" Advantage: Thief, no question. Anyone who builds a party without a competent Thief is just asking for trouble. Sorry to all you soloists out there.

It's no trouble with these spells.

Sure, your Cleric might be left alone long enough to cast False Dawn or Sunray, and then sprint up to where some bad guys are before the spell's oh-so-short duration expires, and maybe some Undead will die from your efforts. Or maybe the Warriors in your party will have slain all the Undead while you were fiddling with spells, and you might have been wiser to buff them up with things like Chaotic Commands and Regeneration.

? How often did you actually use these spells? The effects are instantanous upon complete casting. There is no need to sprint around.

As for Protection from Petrification + Spell Shield, you might as well just make it SI:Alteration + Spell Shield instead, to free you from the Slow and Hold spells.

Nothing a Free Action ring won't cure. Compare the level of the spells too.

Re: Glitterdust vs. True Sight. Even with three people in your party running True Sights simultaneously, Draconis will still go Invisible and still cause you to waste your spells. It would be nice if the sparkling dust produced by the spell actually made the target(s) immune to Invisibility for the duration, as implied in the Spell Description.

And how many Draconis do you fight in the game? [img]tongue.gif[/img] Again, Glitterdust is a level 2 spell. It serves its' purpose well enough.

[ister]

Originally posted by Link: Non Detection (Level 3, Mage) is another one I find quite useless, as well as Farsight (Level 4, Mage), Command (Level 1, Priest), Aid (Level 2, Priest).

Command is an extremely useful spell in BG1. One round of free hacking at a tough enemy can make a huge difference in that game. In BG2 everyone saves against it, and one round won't help you much.

Originally posted by SixOfSpades: [QB] Glitterdust: If it did what it said and actually PREVENTED the victim(s) from going Invisible for the spell's duration, it would be interesting enough to be useful. Magic Stone: Worst. Spell. Ever. "Hey, lookit me, I just created a Bullet+1! Oh, wait, it's a little bit weaker than a Bullet+1. But I still made a rock!"

You're wrong about magic stone. It automatically hits every time. So it's an OK spell disrupter - just as good as magic missile cast by a level 2 mage. Why you don't have a mage who is better than level 2 is an open question, but if you don't this is your best choice for spell disruption.

Glitterdust I don't see the point of. Isn't that what invisibility purge/detect invisibility are for?

[SixOfSpades]

Originally posted by Aelia Jusa: I assumed it [Know Alignment turning the target Hostile] was because the recipient didn't appreciate having some strange armed party cast a spell on them, assuming also that they can tell if a spell is being cast on them. I suppose a good or neutral character may be more likely to say 'hey, what's doing here with the spell?' but I think they'd be on their guard a little in any case.

By the same logic, every creature on the map would band together with the common goal of slaughtering you, every time you have Keldorn cast Detect Evil. Why would people object (so violently object, anyway) to this most basic probe of their morals? How is your average Joe Adventurer supposed to assemble a team of like-minded companions?

No, to me, this is a simple case of "we forgot to un-check a box," similar to the way that casting Nature's Beauty does not break Invisibility.

Originally posted by Dundee Slaytern: The AI for such creatures is usually not so simple-minded, especially if you play with Mods. Also, being able to see what your summons are doing will enable you to make them battle smarter. Not all summons have the duration of Animate Dead, you will want to maximise their usage.

True on all counts, but in the difference between Wizard Eye / Farsight and a Stealthed party member, only the first of your points has any validity. And any beastie smart enough to ignore the Summons to attack the invisible party member is "smart" enough to run across the entire map to attack you without even ever having seen you. I'm pretty sure.

How often did you actually use these spells [Sunray / False Dawn]? The effects are instantanous upon complete casting. There is no need to sprint around.

Ah, I thought we were still with the "Tanks forming a meatwall, with Cleric casting a short distance behind" scenario, in which case the Cleric would indeed need to sprint up to the front lines for the spell to do any good.

And how many Draconis do you fight in the game? [img]tongue.gif[/img] Again, Glitterdust is a level 2 spell. It serves its' purpose well enough.

And how many Backstabbing Thieves do you fight in the game? As for low-level spells remaining useful throughout the game, how 'bout Magic Missile?