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Old 02-06-2004, 12:06 PM   #21
Odruith
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Join Date: December 27, 2003
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From a roleplay point of view... the worst class I can think of is a mage/thief.

For the simple reason, Why would a thief walk around hidden in shadows in a sweeping robe that makes a hell of alot of noise?..

And why would a mage run around picking locks and the like when he could cast simple spells on the locks or use things.

That is of course just from a roleplaying point of view [img]tongue.gif[/img]
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Old 02-06-2004, 12:12 PM   #22
drew_jarvie
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Cleric/Mage and Sorceror... Because they make too many debates about who is best!
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Old 02-06-2004, 12:32 PM   #23
Raistlin Majere
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Quote:
Originally posted by Odruith:
From a roleplay point of view... the worst class I can think of is a mage/thief.

For the simple reason, Why would a thief walk around hidden in shadows in a sweeping robe that makes a hell of alot of noise?..

And why would a mage run around picking locks and the like when he could cast simple spells on the locks or use things.

That is of course just from a roleplaying point of view [img]tongue.gif[/img]
i disagree...who says mages have to wear robes? Also, he may not need to pick locks, allowing him to concentrate on his other skills, making him more effective. thieves rarely like to engage melee, so the mages disabling spells would come in handy...hold person->blind->pickpockets=money without danger of getting caught . Cast an invisibility spell, sneak into a nobles house and steal everything you can, recast invisibility and sneak out(given, the game engine isnt complex enough so you would have to this, but lets pretend were playing P&P, or somehting...). Being even part mage doesnt mean you have to go around shooting fireballs at everything that breathes...the thief could have mearly desided to study magic, so he could better practise his true calling...or vice versa(after all, most mages are very keen for scrolls and magic items...)
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Old 02-06-2004, 12:52 PM   #24
Ironbar
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Sorc. if you choose the wrong spells!
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Old 02-06-2004, 01:13 PM   #25
Dundee Slaytern
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Since SixOfSpades mentioned that we should assume that the player is not an absolute moron, dualclasses at low levels or Sorcerers with bad spell picks should not be considered.

Kensai(13)->Cleric sounds intriguing though. I will have to think upon that one to see what redeeming features it might have.
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Old 02-06-2004, 01:29 PM   #26
SixOfSpades
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Oooo....three of you have gotten very close, but nobody's hit the nail on the head just yet. One person even managed to hit near the mark and miss by a mile in the same post.

Dundee, the character can be solo or with a party....but since even the Nobleman class (stats of all 9's, not allowed to do anything except stand around, talk to people, and carry stuff) has been used to beat the game, we must assume that the sucky character in question must be at least trying to pull his own weight. As far as MODs are concerned, pretty much all classes and kits are allowed--especially since there's no way in hell the Anti-Paladin or Overbalanced Shapeshifter could even get a nomination in this thread, anyway.

Rataxes makes some good calls: A Shapeshifter->Fighter (Dualed at 2) would indeed suck, although frankly the only difference between Full Plate and the Bracers of Defense AC 3 is a measly 2 points of AC. [EDIT: Except for the AC modifiers, of course. Never forget your AC modifiers, like I just did.] Your Mages will just have to be content with the 2 pairs of Bracers of AC 4. And I'd forgotten the full implications of the Kensai->Cleric: The only ranged weapons available to the Kensai, even in MODded games, require the Kensai to be a non-Cleric and/or a Dwarf. Sucks to be you!

Ironbar, your Sorcerer with crappy spells is probably the worst character yet--but even Bumbo the Wonder Doofus can still kick butt with the Stuff of the Magi and enough Wands & scrolls. Besides, I said that we are to assume the player knows what the heck he's doing, and therefore wouldn't choose spells like Find Familiar and Friends. (True, I do violate this rule a little bit with my "correct answer," but only a little bit--in a No-Reloads game, it might not be called stupidity at all.)

[ 02-06-2004, 01:30 PM: Message edited by: SixOfSpades ]
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Old 02-06-2004, 01:31 PM   #27
Odruith
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True, Raistlin...

Though a mage can't really not wear a robe, since he'd lose mage spells with leather armour.

Making it difficult. But your reasoning is pretty cool, I was considering mainly offensive spell types [img]smile.gif[/img]
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Old 02-06-2004, 01:36 PM   #28
Rataxes
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So are we then always assuming optimal dual-classing levels? In that case I doubt the Kensai->Cleric would qualify, since it's melee power would far outclass anything save the Kensai/Mage at the cost of mostly AC, which Barkskin goes a long way to fix.

Even the Shapeshifter->Fighter can be pretty decent if dual-class at a good level. With those two out of the way, I'm voting for the Beastmaster too.

EDIT: Actually, skip the Beastmaster. I'm leaving my vote open

[ 02-06-2004, 01:44 PM: Message edited by: Rataxes ]
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Old 02-06-2004, 04:12 PM   #29
SixOfSpades
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rataxes:
So are we then always assuming optimal dual-classing levels?
We are not. Choosing a "bad" time to Dual is precisely as indicative of intelligence and forethought (or lack thereof) as choosing a "bad" kit. So Dualing a Kensai->Cleric at level 2 is perfectly acceptable. Besides, Duals that low are by no means always a bad thing: Consider a Mage (or Mage kit) Dualed to Fighter at Level 2. The crappy hitpoints from your 2 Mage levels are compensated by the hitpoints gained from having a Familiar, and you are left with a Fighter who can use all Mage items, including reading Scrolls while wearing Full Plate. He suffers no THAC0 penalty, and might even gain a permanent bonus to his Saves vs. Spells and Wands.

Quote:
I'm leaving my vote open
Ahh, c'mon, you gotta pick something. Speaking of which, why haven't you posted your 2 quotes in the Movie Quotes thread? It's your turn, you know.
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Old 02-06-2004, 06:20 PM   #30
Userunfriendly
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enchanter dual to cleric???

why??? no stoneskin, no melf minute meteors, no chromatic orb...(opposition school is invocation/evocation...urg!!!!!!!!)

but worst of all, cannot use chain contingency, spell trigger and other scrolls...

i mean the whole evils of a cleric/mage is the ability to sequence cleric spells...a enchanter cleric can't...

this post is becoming very fun...i know of many ways to maximize the ability of certain classes, i've never quite had to think in reverse...
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