Spellcasters and Party Members (Spoilers)

[SixOfSpades]

Originally posted by wally p: I find that there are only a couple healing spells that are tactically worth using, and as such, one divine spellcaster is more than sufficient. If that's contrary to taste, then it's contrary to taste, but clerics (particularly second clerics) are not as essential to a party like, say, a thief capable of detecting and disarming traps would be.

Healing spells were lifesavers in BG1, where there were no Regeneration items, Healing Potions were rather scarce, and your hitpoints were so low that every single one was precious. But all these changed in BG2: Goodberries are now actually less useful than unenchanted Bullets.

As for having only one Priest: I must disagree, as I find the combination of the Cleric and Druid halves a most appealing one--Holy Smite and Insect Plague both kick ass, and I'd miss being without one of them for a whole game. Jaheira + Aerie and Jaheira + Anomen are both quite sound--for powergaming and roleplaying. Heck, even Jaheira + Viconia makes good sense, because despite being a true-class Cleric, Viconia can also fit the role of a Wizard Slayer with rock-bottom AC.

[Illumina Drathiran'ar]

Gangrell, if I could direct your attention to the board ::gestures to a chalkboard::

Viconia + (Jahiera + Aerie + Imoen) = One party that never stops bickering

Keldorn will get along fine.... although Jahiera doesn't care for him, they won't fight. And again, judging from the makeup of the party, you seem to be mostly good-aligned, and if your rep gets too high, Viconia will leave you anyway.

[wally p]

Hi Six,

I'm not saying that it's not *nice* to have a cleric and a druid, I'm saying that it's not necessary as was implied earlier in the thread.

[Gangrell]

Originally posted by Illumina Drathiran'ar: Gangrell, if I could direct your attention to the board ::gestures to a chalkboard:: Viconia + (Jahiera + Aerie + Imoen) = One party that never stops bickering Keldorn will get along fine.... although Jahiera doesn't care for him, they won't fight. And again, judging from the makeup of the party, you seem to be mostly good-aligned, and if your rep gets too high, Viconia will leave you anyway.

Not neccesarily. I know about the party reputation and the odds of an evil character leaving a good party in an unmodded version of BgII but I make sure I have Ease of Use installed before any adventure.

As for roleplaying reasons, it all depends on the PC if there will be 'constant bickering' or not. If you play a female character, Aerie will not bicker as she does have conversations with Chloe so that really does take the annoyance out of her. If you do play a male character, that is harder because she will complain through out the course of the entire game but I think that's only if you romance her, not too sure.

As for Jaheira and Viconia, that's inevitable. A druid that believes in the balance of all things (which we know doesn't exist) and a black hearted priest devoted to the most evil gods in Faerun, yes, there will be a few complications but that's the point of roleplaying. Not all one group is supposed to get along with each other so it adds so flavor to the game and with that combination it is great for powergaming.

Jaheira, IMO, is a neccesity to the game. Unless you make it a habit to play a druid PC, which I don't think many do, you need Insect Swarm to combat wizards.

[Dundee Slaytern]

No class is ever necessary in a party by that definition really.

What can be measured though, is whether the inclusion of said class will make life easier for you than the inclusion of other classes.

[wally p]

this is true, dundee, and so I object to the rhetoric that has pervaded this thread as to the *necessity* of having a second cleric.

even on that level, there is something to be said about the game design and what it demands to be solved. There is the problem of traps, the problem of stoneskinned mages, etc. and that discussion is worth having--which classes are "necessary" for inclusion because of X problem.

a second divine spellcaster falls outside of all of these "necessities" and I just wish that it would stop being portrayed as such, however useful they are regardless.

[SixOfSpades]

Originally posted by wally p: I'm not saying that it's not *nice* to have a cleric and a druid, I'm saying that it's not necessary as was implied earlier in the thread.

And you're quite correct in that. Several of my parties have had only the one Priest (and I've only played a Ranger/Cleric once) and gotten along fine. That's why I never said that your party would fall stumbling by the wayside and breathe its last feeble gasps at the bottom of a ditch if your only Priest was Cernd....I only said that I find casting from both halves of the Priest Scroll "appealing." [img]smile.gif[/img]

[Gangrell]

Originally posted by wally p: a second divine spellcaster falls outside of all of these "necessities" and I just wish that it would stop being portrayed as such, however useful they are regardless.

Wally, there is nothing wrong with saying that a second cleric is neccesary, some people may need another cleric because they might have more difficulties in the game than others do. I never said it is required to have two, as I said healing potions work fine and are quicker to use.

Dundee, I see your point, allow me to rephrase that. Jaheira is a neccesity to make the game easier for me [img]tongue.gif[/img]

Edit: spelling

[ 01-27-2004, 09:15 PM: Message edited by: Gangrell ]

[wally p]

ok, last clarification:

I don't have a problem with people saying that they find it necessary to play with two clerics or whatever in their party.

I only object (fairly lightly, by the way) to the statement, explicit or implicit, that *everyone* needs to have a cleric or divine spellcaster.

I, hopefully, got that across--and when people were responding, I was operating under the misconception that they were refuting that aspect of what I was saying, but it seems, we were making the same point all along.

recap:
1) I didn't want anybody new reading this thread thinking that the game throws challenges at you that requires two divine spellcasters because I find that to be untrue.
2) two divine spellcasters are fun anyway and you should play how you like.

end. [img]smile.gif[/img]

[Userunfriendly]

well, i actually use jaheira as the ultimate in offensive attack npc...i rarely use her heal spells at all...she certainly makes a wonderful tank, with incredible powers....her druid spells boost her attack abilities very nicely...