10-09-2002, 02:30 AM | #21 | |
Iron Throne Cult
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10-09-2002, 02:54 AM | #22 | |
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10-09-2002, 04:32 AM | #23 | |
Jack Burton
Join Date: March 1, 2001
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[img]\"http://www.wheatsheaf.freeserve.co.uk/roastspurs.gif\" alt=\" - \" /> <br />Proud member of the Axis of Upheaval<br />Official Titterer of the Laughing Hyenas<br />Josiah Bartlet - the best President the US never had.<br />The 1st D in the D & D Show |
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10-09-2002, 08:31 AM | #24 | |
Lord Ao
Join Date: June 24, 2002
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And no. They can't force their way into your home to use the [img]graemlins/toilet.gif[/img] but demanding Oreos is Ok [ 10-09-2002, 09:42 AM: Message edited by: Night Stalker ]
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[url]\"http://www.duryea.org/pinky/gurkin.wav\" target=\"_blank\">AYPWIP?</a> .... <img border=\"0\" alt=\"[1ponder]\" title=\"\" src=\"graemlins/1ponder.gif\" /> <br />\"I think so Brain, but isn\'t a cucumber that small called a gherkin?\"<br /><br />Shut UP! Pinky! |
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10-09-2002, 09:23 AM | #25 |
Fzoul Chembryl
Join Date: July 11, 2002
Location: Limbo
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i will repeat myself from the sniper post: the only gun control NEEDED is family gun control. we didn't have school shootings when dad's took kids hunting and taught them respect. unfortunately that doesn't happen in today's society where most of the time it's hard to find one parent or the other, and most of us work hours that keep us from our children most of the day. yeh so they're in school most of the day, but not during the summer. a breakdown of society stems fromt eh breakdown of family. i have a friend named gene. great guy, would bend over backwards for a friend. i remmeber the first time he talked to his dad (i think it was the first time in his life, but don;t quote me on it) he said his dad wanted ott ake him to new york. i asked him why he cared what his dad wanted when he hasn't been there the whole time. his mom also, she was there physically, but not as a parent. he looked at me once when iw as griping about my parents not letting me do things they thought were bad. all he said to me was "i wish my mom cared so much." the look in his eye was surprising. here's a boy who basically decided whther or not to show up at school, how much pot to smoke, who to get alcohol from, etc. and he's jealous of my overbearing parents???? it really is the breakdown of family that makes our "nanny goverment" possible. the ppl have voted it in to lead us because they're not home to hold their kids hands, and so must ask our politicians to. i say they because i have only participated in one election. i don;t mind seatbelt and helmet laws, i always where my belt, and i don;t ride anything requiring a helmet. i think the ppl who don't deserve what they get. my cousin is a horrible driver and doesn't where hers. she has a lot of back problems!!! but i feel that if someone is stupid enough not to see the safety of it then they need someone to point it out. ignorance is asking to be educated, family isn't there to do it, so goverment does. i don;t want to know anyone who's died in an accident, i want the ppl i know to live and love. if the goverment accomplishes that i thank them! and i know this will be butchered most likely and have allt he faults pointed out, so be it. if i didn;t ave faults in my opinions i wouldn't be human.
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10-09-2002, 10:40 AM | #26 | |
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10-09-2002, 10:53 AM | #27 | |
40th Level Warrior
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I'm just asking how we do it. If good family upbringing can get rid of (or decrease the severity of) the gun problem and the drug problem, how do we ensure youngsters get good family upbringing? At present, we do it by (attempting to) identify abusive or deadbeat parents and ripping the kids from them or putting them (the parents) in jail. Sometimes we send them to parenting classes. All this seems a big joke. The Malthusian/Darwinist in me wants to let those families fall through the cracks - hell, it's no secret overpopulation is our biggest problem. The elitist social planner in me wants to take the kids from bad homes and find them good ones - even if it means requiring wealthy families to take them in. The reasonable guy in me simply realizes he sees the problem and has no clue how to tackle it. |
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10-09-2002, 05:27 PM | #28 | ||
Drizzt Do'Urden
Join Date: August 16, 2002
Location: Newcastle, England
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*However*, this does not mean that every criminal has a gun and every law-abiding citizen does not. What it means is that there are very few guns in circulation. People who are part of large crime rings have them. Muggers don't. Burglars don't. That's what the strict gun law does - it means that because the police have no guns and the citizens have no guns, the criminals tend not to carry them either - firstly, because they don't need them, and secondly, because there are not many places to get them, thirdly, because if you get caught carrying one or owning one, it's instant arrest. Guns are so prevalent in America, that to get one is a cinch. Reeka tells me that when she was mugged in London, the mugger wasn't even carrying a knife. In the UK this is perfectly normal. Maybe they will carry a knife, and in very rare circumstances, a gun. *Very* rare. It makes the front page news when someone is shot by a mugger, it is so rare. She tells me, however, that in America, she would likely have been dead. A mugger will shoot you just so you aren't a witness at his trial. likewise a burglar. Hell, they'll even shoot you for road-rage. The prevalence of guns in the US leads to an enormous lack of respect for life among the criminal underclass. They can kill you from a distance, and tyey don't even get their hands dirty. It's unemotional. It's far different from plunging a knife into someone's belly and feeling their blood wash over your hands. It's cold and distant, and that's why the gun situation is out of control in your country. Prohibition would never work, because you would nevr get all the guns out of circulation. Over here, however, the laws have been very strict. Guns are not in circulation. You cannot obtain a gun by going into someone's house and stealing it. The result? You don't get shot at work by a disgruntled employee. You don't get shot because you had a fight with a guy in a pub. You don't get shot in the heat of an argument. You don't get shot because you were caught ****ing your neighbour's wife. You don't get shot when you get mugged. You don't get shot when you get burgled. Really, you just don't get shot unless you are staggeringly unlucky, or involved in some organised criminal undertaking. Hell, i grew up and live in a right sh**hole, surrounded by drug dealers, arsonists, career criminals, muggers, burglars and 'reformed' rehoused criminals. I've never even seen a gun, and only heard a 'rumour' that someone I knew may have had one once. Say what you like about prohibition of guns. The UK has it, guns are rare in circulation, you don't get shot. The US doesn't, guns are everywhere, you are likely to be shot if you are mugged. According to many Americans (whom I know in real life), if they don't shoot you first, to steal your stuff, they'll shoot you afterwards, to stop your testimony. The UK solution? You can walk around in relative safety, knowing that if you get mugegd, you *may* get stabbed, and you will *not* be shot. Can the same be said of the US? No - all you can say is that the criminal will have his gun, you will have yoursa, and the person that lives is the one with the faster draw. As te the constitution - it was made 200 years ago when your country was coming out of colonial rule that it had only managed to throw off because the citizens armed themselves and fought. I believe the spirit of the constitution is that you can own a gun to protect your home, and to use in the rare event that the government loses it's head and starts trying to act unilaterally. what it does not mean IMHO is that every american has easy access to staggeringly huge amounts of military weaponry that gets used far too often for the wrong reasons.
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10-09-2002, 05:38 PM | #29 |
Drizzt Do'Urden
Join Date: August 16, 2002
Location: Newcastle, England
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I should, of course, add that no country is perfect. One thing America does perfectly correctly is allow you to defend your home against intruders.
In the US as I understand it, anyone who gets shot by you while they are burgling your home or mugging you is assumed to have no legel recourse against you. This is only sensible - they committed the crime. if they didn't want to get shot - don't burgle peoples' houses! In the UK, however, you are totally unable to defend your home. If someone breaks in you are allowed to a) - scare them away by shouting, and b) - call the police. The law makes no mention of the result of a and b - that yopu and your family may very well be harmed. In this country, if you in any way harm an intruder, or even threaten to harm him, or even if you keep a bat beside your bed just in case - you go to jail. That's right folks - in the UK, if you try to defend your home, you go to jail, and the criminal gets compensation. Great, eh? Just wanted to tip my hat to the US for actually having sensible laws about defending your home. It seems that in that respect, you are far more sensible than this damn counrty :9 *grumble*
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10-09-2002, 05:51 PM | #30 |
40th Level Warrior
Join Date: July 11, 2002
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Well, Bardan I'm so happy somebody finally posted this perspective. I spent a summer in London, went to bad places at the worst hours (hell, I lived right up from Kings Cross - decently dodgy), and never feared guns because you just had that sense about it. Now, you can certainly get mugged and get the holy shit beaten out of you - but not getting shot is definately a plus. The worst fear in London that summer were nail-bombs being set off in Jewish communities - which is certainly a threat you guys had a much larger share of than we did, until 9/11 of course.
The defense of self-defense in the US is complicated. In general, you can only answer with deadly force (guns, knives) if you are faced with deadly force (normally guns/knives, but possibly large fists if you are small and female - it's a "reasonable fear" test). As well, you typically must retreat if possible to avoid using deadly force. In the home, in most states, deadly force is allowed, as the fear of harm you will have is increased. Some states still require you to retreat if in the home (e.g. Massachusetts)- this is an issue that is being examined in this season's The Practice, BTW. Still best no shoot someone in the back. And you are almost never allowed to use force of any kind to protect mere property. Unless you are in Texas or Louisiana, where you can use deadly force to combat "criminal mischief" (e.g. keying your car) during the nighttime. Gotta love those Southerners. My approach if I suspect an intruder would be to loudly announce that I have a weapon, that I assume they do, and that they should leave now or risk their life. Then shoot shoot shoot. Lookout - It's comin' right for us. - South Park, of course. |
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