Is Western Society Slipping?

[Rokenn]

Originally posted by MagiK: See we agree on all 5 issues (ok we don't agree on #5)(6 isn't really an issue) but it really is a push by the left and mostly dems that is fostering the idea that the classes need to be aimed at the lowest common denominator, rather than let little johnny grow up and find out that he really is only suitable for digging ditches. (no offense ment to the union of ditch excavators and the "family")It is all those touchy feely people who want everyone to succeed, even if they are doing it at the expense of the over all quality of education.

Of course it is completely ok for the conservative right to push for the teaching of creationism in schools...

Originally posted by Rokenn: Of course it is completely ok for the conservative right to push for the teaching of creationism in schools...

Says who? I personaly being a Conservative Right wing type, do not want religion being taught in my kids school, we take care of that at church and catechism and at home. I want the schools to teach Reading, Writing, Grammar, Math, English, History, and Sciences, and for frills Music, art and Sports/Athletics.

Honestly I attended public schools for most of my youth, and we never learned creationism there. As for the Creation story as told in Genesis, all the religious scholoars I have talked to personally believe that it is a parable and not literal fact...of course they were jesuits.

[ 01-22-2003, 10:37 AM: Message edited by: MagiK ]

[Rokenn]

Originally posted by MagiK: quote: Originally posted by Rokenn: Of course it is completely ok for the conservative right to push for the teaching of creationism in schools...

Says who? I personaly being a Conservative Right wing type, do not want religion being taught in my kids school, we take care of that at church and catechism and at home. I want the schools to teach Reading, Writing, Grammar, Math, English, History, and Sciences, and for frills Music, art and Sports/Athletics.

Honestly I attended public schools for most of my youth, and we never learned creationism there. As for the Creation story as told in Genesis, all the religious scholoars I have talked to personally believe that it is a parable and not literal fact...of course they were jesuits.[/QUOTE]Says who? The misguided people that push for it every few years. Just like the misguided liberals the push for silliness like no scores in a competitive sport or dumbing down of other course material. I made the comment a broad one to get you to check the size of the brush you are using to paint liberals with. We all do not believe in the things you mentioned, just like you do not support teaching creationism in schools.

[WillowIX]

Originally posted by MagiK: Wait till you see what kinds of homework your kids bring home Willow If they actually ever get homework that is, these days homework isn't popular because it burdens the poor childs free time making them too stressed to concentrate in class the next day......*sigh* (nice Sig by the way [img]smile.gif[/img] )

I am not talking about grammar school or high scool MagiK. I do not reacll much of those actually. I am talking about medical studies in university. Let´s say a new doctor started to work in my hospital, in the same ward. Let´s also say he´s lacking in thoraxic anatomy. He would then be fired one hour after he started, if he had a patient during that time. Perhaps medical studies isn´t a good example. You either learn it all or you don´t, and if you don´t...

I do not plan to push my children, with the exception of two things. Education and pregnancy! One is extremely important in early life, the other is not. Now which is which?

Originally posted by Rokenn: Says who? The misguided people that push for it every few years. Just like the misguided liberals the push for silliness like no scores in a competitive sport or dumbing down of other course material. I made the comment a broad one to get you to check the size of the brush you are using to paint liberals with. We all do not believe in the things you mentioned, just like you do not support teaching creationism in schools.

Ahh right, I see where you are going then...but I didn't paint ALL liberals as believing that stuff, I only posited that it is a liberal left initiative...not all were intended to be included. so hope that clears up the confusion.

[Timber Loftis]

Originally posted by MagiK: I personaly being a Conservative Right wing type, do not want religion being taught in my kids school, we take care of that at church and catechism and at home. I want the schools to teach Reading, Writing, Grammar, Math, English, History, and Sciences, and for frills Music, art and Sports/Athletics. Honestly I attended public schools for most of my youth, and we never learned creationism there. As for the Creation story as told in Genesis, all the religious scholoars I have talked to personally believe that it is a parable and not literal fact...of course they were jesuits.

MagiK, this is why I think it's not a liberal/conservative issue. You rant at the extreme left, but adopt a middle ground conservative view. To compare apples to apples, you would need to compare extreme left and extreme right. And, extreme right DOES in fact want creationism taught in schools.

Most real life folks fall only slightly to one side or other of the fence. Why, then, is it fair to use these liberal/conservative ambiguous labels?

Originally posted by WillowIX: I am not talking about grammar school or high scool MagiK. I do not reacll much of those actually. I am talking about medical studies in university. Let´s say a new doctor started to work in my hospital, in the same ward. Let´s also say he´s lacking in thoraxic anatomy. He would then be fired one hour after he started, if he had a patient during that time. Perhaps medical studies isn´t a good example. You either learn it all or you don´t, and if you don´t... I do not plan to push my children, with the exception of two things. Education and pregnancy! One is extremely important in early life, the other is not. Now which is which? Well with that being said, I think I would permit you to parent my children if the need ever arose [img]smile.gif[/img] I like your take on things......err it has just been pointed out to me that My comment above may be construed as an inappropriate advance... it wasn't meant that way

Originally posted by Timber Loftis: Why, then, is it fair to use these liberal/conservative ambiguous labels?

Mostly because it is so much fun to watch the fireworks but to be more serious, the left push to dumb down education is far more pervasive and successful in the present reality than is the push for the crationism one. As far as I know the only place where the teaching of creationism in public school has any real strength is in Kansas....and honestly I think it is all that flat land that does it to them...nothing to break up the monotony.

[Vaskez]

Originally posted by homer: I believe you get out off college what you want to get out of college. I will freely admit there are plenty of students out there who go to college to party, so they do not have to work, because their parents told them to, and so on. If they go in with these ideals then, I agree, they will not graduate with a whole lot of knowledge. In my opinion this is not the fault of the college or teachers. I have no direct knowledge about this, I will however speculate. In order for a college to stay open, that is get money from wherever it is they get money. State colleges from the state, private colleges from tuition, donations from alumni; that is all that come to mind, I am sure there are other ways colleges raise money. My point being, in order for these colleges to get this money I would surmise they have to show some kind of results. Therefore, if the main body of students falls into the, “I do not relay care what grades I get” categories, a college may have to lower its standards in order to stay open.

That is precisely my point and the problem. The standards are being lowered because students work less but the universities still need levels to be reached. I mentioned a signal processing course at my uni: last year the average grade was 35% I'm doing it now so it'll probably be like that again Anyway, they moderated everyone's grade up by 10% simply because they needed to get their gaussian curve of results, if you know what I mean.

[Timber Loftis]

Vasqez I didn't have time to do this yesterday, but I think I'll put in a plug for today's students, noting the following:

- if their grades aren't great they're screwed - both getting in college and coming out
- High School education means absolutely nothing anymore.
- College degree is barely worth the paper it's printed on 'cause everybody has one
- Unless it's an ASTOUNDING college, where only 5% of those clawing to get in actually get accepted
- And, you won't get into that college without a 1400+ SAT, which you must start taking as a 10th grader these days
- And don't forget that without "diversity" you are nothing - so you better play sport and be an officer in a few clubs as well 'cause grades alone ain't gonna do it
- And if mommy and daddy can't help out w/ trips to practice and letter jackets and college-prep courses and SAT-prep course your hurdle is 3X higher
- and AP classes are still tough, but nowadays you take the AP exam and the college you choose doesn't give you class credit for it but rather simply bumps you into a higher/ more difficult class so your reward is simply more work

I myself love to spit upon the slacker generation. But, as time has marched on every generation of Americans (and I would think all first world folks) have had more demanded of them faster and better than the generation before. That trend still continues, and applies to school and work, most likely. Plus, in America we have the added bonus of being the first generation (my generation, Gen13, just younger than GenX, also called GenY, or Gen Why?) in history to make less money than our parents did (Boomers, for me).

As to getting out of school knowing more, I will say one thing. The greatest accomplishment of my generation was that we discovered it is NOT important to know the specifics - such as the text of the Gettysburg Address - so long as you can *find* the information in 5 seconds.