PLEASE STOP!!!

[Epona]

Well, I for one love the serious debates, and wouldn't want to see a separate forum for them.
I do respect Azure's point though, and I think it has got a bit out of hand - not that the topics are too serious, but that sometimes people take things too far and it gets a little personal. This is upsetting and unsettling for all concerned.
This doesn't have to be the case though. We are all mature sensible people (although we try hard not to be all the time ) and I am sure we are capable of conducting ourselves in a civil fashion. But it depends on each and every individual to be responsible about their posting.

Disagreement can be healthy, just as long as everyone remembers that you are disagreeing with someone's opinion - and it is not personal. We should take pride in disagreeing and remaining friends. And at the end of the day, we all have to accept that we may not change the other person's view to match our own. When there is little common ground, agree to disagree and don't rehash it over and over.

And above all, respect.

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Time is an illusion. Lunchtime doubly so.

Epona of The Laughing Hyenas
Proud winner of the 'Most Useless Post 250 Has Ever Seen' Award 2001. "I'd just like to thank my friends and family, without whom none of this would have been possible..."

[Harkoliar]

i agree with Azure Wolf, its time to take a break, take a stroll for a walk, breath up a good lungful of freash air and have a great night sleep. best we start looking for jokes for everyone to enjoy. i still recall some of those good ones weeks ago.. sigh time sure changed after that kind of space...

i also agree with 250, seperating the general discussion and serious post would (from my own point of view) greatly split the crowd entering the general discussion and others to the seperate discussion board. if i see that kind of thing happen, i could predict that the crowd will thin out on both sides and soon very few people will be left on both discussion. besides, putting all the serious people in one discussion will eventually make people lose thier tempers in the debate. thats my 2c

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Revived I Am to hunt this world... Banish ye evil or face my wrath...

[Memnoch]

Originally posted by Epona: And above all, respect.

Thank you very much for saying that, Epona! I didn't want to be accused of spamming.

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[J.J.]

Originally posted by Sazerac: I've said it before, and I'll say it again: We need a separate forum for "Serious Discussions". When the forum upgrade occurs, maybe we can rally for a Serious Discussions forum then. We need a place where these kind of heated debates can thrive and not upset other members who aren't interested in those types of discussions.

NO,DONT SPLIT THE FORUM...oops, capslockking made me do it
it is already hard enough to find threads and folks, ohhhh, my poor, arthritic brain, was that in serious general discussions, not-so-serious general discussions, or no serious general discussions, help...getting dizzy...izzy:...i've fallen and i can't post..help.....meeeeeeeee....ghk!

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Amanda's Dad

Official Pin-Up Girl Evaluator/Massager of the O.L.D. C.O.O.T.S. Clan
To Err is Human To Forgive Divine, However Neither is U.S. Marine Corps Policy.

[This message has been edited by J.J. (edited 10-10-2001).]

[Sazerac]

Well, I for one would be okay with leaving serious discussion topics in Gen Con IF and ONLY IF people treat each other with respect. Unfortunately, I've seen precious little of that here lately, especially in the debating forums. And it really comes down to a handful of people who seem bent on ruining it for everyone else, either unwittingly or maliciously.

But you cannot argue the effects that the increased lack of respect for others has had on this board. So many valued members are no longer here; now Moraine has left, Bilqis is not really posting much anymore, people are scared to post for fear they'll be jumped on. This is NOT what IW was built upon, but it is the trend into which it is evolving, and I for one don't like it either. It certainly doesn't make my job, or Ertai's, or Memnoch's, or Ziroc's, any easier.

Nachtrafe, you claim that one sometimes needs to "argue the person, not the point." I disagree strongly with this. Maybe that's true in political debates, but this is not a debate forum. We have always prided ourselves in being able to respect other's opinions and being kind to one another, regardless of how we felt about the other person's beliefs or opinions, and have always worked to keep things from getting too personal. I certainly don't hold with all the beliefs said on this board. I will also, as Memnoch has said, fight to the end to allow you to express those beliefs, regardless of how I feel about it...as long as there is mutual courtesy and respect shown to the participants.

Not naming any names, but there now seems to be a contingent here of members who absolutely, positively, unrefutably MUST BE RIGHT under any circumstances, and who disrespect anyone who happens to disagree with them. I remember a safety poster I saw one time when I was going for my driver's license. It showed an automobile wreck, and the caption read, "John was in the right...but he DIED 'right'."

Even if one is in the right, does it hurt to yield sometimes? Or stop, look, and listen? Maybe, just maybe (oh wonder of wonders) one might actually LEARN something?

Or is that too much to ask?



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[Diogenes Of Pumpkintown]

Originally posted by AzureWolf: Listen everybody can we all take a step back for a minute? I have noticed as have many in the last few months that this board is going downhill from humour to all serious. Now for those like Dio who thrive on serious discussion this is all fine. But even you need a break from this Dio, no? Frankly I am sick of hearing about how someone has offened someone else and how that person flamed someone and blah blah blah. Its all shit. Everyones tempers have been flaring around here and its time to stop! Its gone to far and I am seeing people who I count friends on this board leave or not post because it has become too dark and gloomy around here. This has made me very pissed off and I dont care for excuses about how the board is changing. This board has always been known for being caring about others, now it seems to scare them away! Have you no fuckin clue? Almost everyday I am hearing about something else bad happening here and how can you say that kind of change is better than what used to be a very rare occurance. Take a break from all this please!! Now I might be offending some people with this post but I am fed up with seeing people leaving from here and it needs to be brought to a halt. Can everyone not agree to at least take a week long break from serious discussions at least to let tempers die down and rational thought to come to the forefront again??? It has been going on too bloody long.

And this post is any different from what you claim to be addressing?

A lot of the problems of ill feeling on some of the serious discussion threads have been caused by people jumping in late, scolding everyone else after the fact when the people originally involved have already made up and moved on.

The solution is simple. If you don't like the serious discussions, than stay out of the threads. I agree with Sazerac that a separate forum for such things is a good idea, like at MH or some other forums, to better enable those people who claim they hate such stuff but somehow don't seem to be able to resist it from getting offended. That way they would have no excuse whatsoever for being bothered by such things. Perhaps a sign such as "Here be Dragons, Enter at Own Risk" could be posted at the entrance to such a forum

That said, it is certainly true that a lot of tempers have flared recently over the current international crisis. I have certainly been guilty of losing my cool and engaging in far less than admirable conduct lately.

However, I question what seems to be a popular feeling here that such is altogether a bad sign.

On the contrary, I think it says a lot for many of the people here, including the very ones I most often and most strongly disagree with, that they care so much about these truly grave circumstances. Whether I agree with them or not, I admire their passion for what they believe in and their realization that, yes, these ARE incredibly serious times, which call for soul searching and passionate debate.

I would be very alarmed for the fate of the human race if this forum were currently like what some of you seem to be saying it should be, just a place where all we talked about were trivial aspects of life and told jokes. Hell, if tempers and passions weren't flaring over the late events, what would that show except that we were emotionally dead to the world and practically souless creatures who didn't give a damn about anything important?

Yes, there is a down side to passion. But the alternative is worse.

[DragonMage]

I, for another one, appreciate the edicts to slow down and ease off a bit. Especially when you can see someone isn't going to budge from his/her position. Why push the issue if you see you can't convince the other person to your point of view? It's a bit silly. I, too, have gotten nipped a few times recently just trying to respond to the original topic - caught in the crossfire, it would seem. I don't think a separate board is necessary, myself. I like Yorick's idea of a word in the heading to warn of possible volitility of subject matter....just like putting 'spoiler' in others. Maybe Ziroc could even come up with a Message Icon like the yellow triangle with the '!' - only red?

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Alureth...Dragon friend of Breanna, Mage and Advisor in the Court of Lady Lioness

Co-Owner/Operator of the Evil Petting Zoo and devout member of the HADB clan.
Commander of the Dragon Fleet, IW Peacekeeping Force
Sublime Sister of the Illuminati - may the Light shine forever!
Second Historian and Scribe of IW. Mother Hen of IW.
Mage extraordinair, Pin-Up Girl for the OLD-COOTS
Magey-Wagey: performer in the Nekked Dancing Trio of the ORT.

Hopeless Romantic *sigh*

[Yorick]

Dio, I missed you last night. I've got 10 minutes and a hotmail address: hughdwilson@hotmail.com

Put me on msn, load up and have a quick chat.

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I am the walrus!.... er, no hang on....

A fair dinkum laughing Hyena!

[Diogenes Of Pumpkintown]

Originally posted by Yorick: Dio, I missed you last night. I've got 10 minutes and a hotmail address: hughdwilson@hotmail.com Put me on msn, load up and have a quick chat.

Would love to Yorick, but am at the office computer right now. Don't have MSN messenger here. Sorry

[Yorick]

Alright, well know there's no hard feelings o.k.? About anything. I respect you. When I have discussed with you I have had to dig deep and work hard, which elicits a passion that perhaps comes out as firey, but I hold you no ill will. We possibly disagree on many things because our belief systems though similar, are similar because they are opposite. Where they are not opposite the 'Devils advocate' in both of us takes the extreme view that counters the others points.

Have a good day mate. Take it easy and good health to you.

Hugh

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I am the walrus!.... er, no hang on....

A fair dinkum laughing Hyena!