SAG and possible death for Left Wing

Originally posted by wellard: I'll take it that it was serious *sigh* Please dont try and justify this evil and vicious bullying. The U.S.A. own Spannish inquasition is a sad stain in your history books. Just because a few commies were caught does in no way begin to mask the horrendous wrongs commited to innocent people. Which was the greater sin, the supporters of this vindictiveness or the silent majority? I hope their is not a growing movement in U.S.A. to try and alter history and to gloss over the wrongs of that era.

I agree it was a sad misuse of power. However he was right. There were comunists comitting treason selling american military and government secrets to Stalin....do you support helping Stalin? The man that most people regard as responsible for more murders than any other single human being?

[HolyWarrior]

Those people WERE traitors, and it's time to bring back HUAC to deal with the current ones.

[The Hierophant]

Originally posted by HolyWarrior: Those people WERE traitors, and it's time to bring back HUAC to deal with the current ones.

hmmm, 170 posts so far Holywarrior. I wonder how many of them contain the word 'traitor'.
[img]tongue.gif[/img]

TRAITORS! TRAITORS EVERYWHERE!!!!!!

[ 03-06-2003, 05:03 AM: Message edited by: The Hierophant ]

[Davros]

Originally posted by HolyWarrior: Those people WERE traitors, and it's time to bring back HUAC to deal with the current ones.

OK - had to go to google to look up what it meant :

House Un-American Activities Committee

So perhaps the radio program that I talked about was not all that far off beam. I have seen a few calls lately on this forum for the HUAC (and I take it I am correct in inferring "McCarthyism" - I'm sure someone will help put me right if I'm not) to make a return.

Have to admit I am with you Wellard - I would not want to see a return to those dark days. Why does history always seem determined to repeat itself - Salem, McCarthy, ..... . Previous posters have indicated that some good things were uncovered by McCarthy, but even those that pointed that out seem to be in agreement that there were terrible abuses and wrongs done to people's lives at both of the witch-hunts that I have named.

[John D Harris]

Originally posted by HolyWarrior: Those people WERE traitors, and it's time to bring back HUAC to deal with the current ones.

I understand your senitment but bringing back HUAC for the Hollywood crowd? Like it or not they have the right to be Crybaby Bedwetters under the US Constitution. IMHO a better course would be to make them irrelevant by not buying their products, since they seem to think that they are intitled to any economic gains or fame WE give them. Just quit giving them the fame and economic gains. Besides do you know what kind of Charlie Foxtrot it would be to have them whinning and crying infront of the American people, remember it is their job to act and incite emotions from people. Then you have to thunk about the lawyers and deal with all of that too
Now If hostilities start any US citizen on Iraqi soil giving aid and confort to the Iraqis ie: human shields should be brought up on Treason charges and if found guilty of those charges have their citizenship revoked and banned from ever setting foot on US soil again in fact not even be allowed to be buried on US soil. The US Constitution give us the right to speak freely not act freely, NO country give it citizens the right to act freely!

[ 03-06-2003, 04:19 AM: Message edited by: John D Harris ]

J.D. We all have the freedom to act. What we lackis the "right" to avoid consequences of those actions.

Davros, I think that what you have heard about McCarthyism (I dont even know if Im spelling his name right) and black balling, and oppression going on here is pretty much a load of crap.

Seriously I have not seen any indication that I am not or any one else is not free to speak my or their minds.

What we ARE seeing here is the American public sending a message to the hollywood types that if they get too extreme and too vocal, that they will have to accept the consequences of being vocal and radical. The average television watcher in the US doesn't want to hear actors telling them how they should live or what their politics should be.

The Government on the other hand is not doing anything to inhibit those actors from demonstrating, from trashing the president or from going to palces like Iraq to shake hands with Saddam.

McCarthyism was the abuse of congressional power pure and simple. That is not what is happening now.

[Davros]

Originally posted by MagiK: Davros, I think that what you have heard about McCarthyism (I dont even know if Im spelling his name right) and black balling, and oppression going on here is pretty much a load of codswallop.

Seriously - on this occasion, I am hoping that MagiK is the one that has the right of things this time and that McCarthyism stays well and truly dead.

On a side note I agree that the people have a similar right to protest and not buy the products of the stars and be verbal and vocal and visual in their disagreement. Do the also have the right to brand and smear individual actors with the epiphet "Un-American". If someone (be it an actor or you and me or Jed Bush for example)from one side of politics objects to a war or a government policy that is coming from the other side - does that make them Un-American? This smearing of people (actors in this case) as pursuing Un-American activities is where this whole spectre of the past seems to be looming.

[Attalus]

Well, judging from some of the things they are saying, I would think "unAmerican" would be mild. Reminds me of when Maxine Waters was on TV, talking about how bad America is and was, then defying her opponents to criticise her patriotism. I certainly do. However, bitching about the government is as American as it gets, IMHO.

[Timber Loftis]

Attalus, I can't really tell which stance you're taking, but I will agree that bitching about our government is VERY American and is, in fact, one of the great "inventions" of the forefathers (freedom of speech being a guaranteed right, I mean).

Let's not forget that whether they be protesting war, protesting abortion, or arguing that a statute of the Madonna made out of feces is "art," it is a bedrock tenet of America that absolute freedom to voice a minority, wacky, and/or dissident view is a GOOD THING. Because the DISCOURSE in itself is a GOOD THING. Because the constitution protects MINORITY OPINIONS (the majority opinion needs no such protection).

As far as I'm concerned organize all the marches you please. Let your opinion be known. The more vocal you are, the better the rest of the population and our leaders can make wise choices.

Oh, and the day the HOUA comes back is the day we really begin slipping into one of those "regime"-type pitfalls. It's the day I'll be glad I own a passport. You cannot discourage free speech or free association - it threatens our nation's very identity as well as its security much more than some bomb-totting dirty extremist bent on martyrdom ever will.

And, if Hollywood activists suffer consequences from espousing unpopular views - well, as stated, that is simply the risk they take. They are free to say what they like, but nothing will ever legislate people agree or like it.

BTW - a HUGE march here in Chi-town last night, with an impromptu march circling downtown. Mostly students, led by Jessie Jackson and a few other polemico losers who don't realize that nobody gives them any credit whatsoever anymore. All the students walked out of class in protest. Protest.... right. At least I was always honest and called it "skipping."

[Attalus]

I quite agree with you, Timber, since I said that bitching about the Government is as "American" as it gets. What does hack me off is for people to voice detestation of the country, and then object when anyone questions their patriotism. Webster's says: pa·tri·ot·ism
Pronunciation: 'pA-trE-&-"ti-z&m, chiefly British 'pa-
Function: noun
Date: circa 1726
: love for or devotion to one's country.
I find it hard to apply to people who detest the country that they live in. That doesn't mean they don't have the right to say it. They do. They just are not being patriotic.