Fighting terrorism

[Grendal]

Originally posted by johnny: [ You're dealing with totally different people here, who we will probably never learn to understand. We didn't understand them 1000 years ago, and we still don't understand them today. [/QB]

Sorry to drag this on, but tonight on TV, CBC newsworld was reporting on the raid and capture of I think it was 11 Palistinian militants by Isreali soldiers today. One of the wives of the captured militants told reporters "We are strong, We will keep having babies and they all will be martyrs"

I think this clarifys just HOW "totally differant" these people are.

[Faceman]

Originally posted by Grendal: Consider just for a second who we are talking about..a people who have had thier religions for longer than christianity has existed. Countries with history that goes back thousands of years. There is nothing that you can say that they want to listen to.

The only religion in mid-east that's older than christianity is Judaism. Islam was founded in the 7th century. Every country's history goes back thousands of years. Some even with ancient high cultures. Where's your daily Japanese, Chinese, Aztec or Indian suicide bomber. Japan has not had a very peaceful history either still it's rather (not very) stable.

Bin Laden may be rich but he's a lunatic. These things happen. I also sincerely doubt that he would go on a suicide mission himself.

All religions are peaceful in general but also provide with rules for the necessity of war. Christianity is an exception here as it does not talk about war in the original texts. Crusades were only legitimated later by the popes in charge. Hinduistic Vedes have rather violent chapters too but you don't see Indian people blow themselves up in London.

Fundamentalistic terrorism has fundamentalists as a basis. To become a fundamentalist you have to be either crazy or desperate. Now there is a certain amount of crazy people everywhere but in these country there's also a whole lot of desperate people.
Terrorism like the Oklahoma bombing is also done by desperate people who have not been properly educated as to "killing is wrong - the cause does not matter for that".

Giving a suicide bomber a Volvo won't change his mind I agree with that. But giving everybody a Volvo will reduce the number of people who want to become a suicide bomber.

Your misconception is that for every Palestinian other than for normal people his foremost goal is to conquer Jerusalem. Wrong! The goal of a Palestinian like with every other person on this world is to give his life some sense. The problem is that the only realistically achievable option that is offered to him is the conquest of Jerusalem. So he makes it his foremost goal.
Arabs don't hate Israelis from their birth. They are told "Jews are bad" and the more bad things they experience (no matter from whom) the more of it they attribute to "the Jews" and nurture their hate.
If they had less to complain about (if only the weather was nicer) they would not have a cause for their hatred.
So I say again: Build up their economy/social structure! Only people who want to commit suicide can be suicide bombers.

[harleyquinn]

Originally posted by johnny: You dare touch my beer, and there will be one more terrorist to fear. Damn, did i just come up with a good songtitle ?

Sounds like a country and western song to me

[Gnarf]

Originally posted by Grendal: A question for the board. How do you fight terrorism? Do you bomb a country? do you oust a regime? Terrorism is an idea not an nations army. You can cut off its funding (bomb countries, oust regimes) but in the end its that pretty little 18 yr old girl wearing an explosive belt that will getcha. How do fight an idea?

You try not to piss off anyone.

[Donut]

War against an abstract noun! Never easy.

[Timber Loftis]

Originally posted by Donut: War against an abstract noun! Never easy.

While this is a nice Donut-esque funny one-liner (or is that two?), it also contains a ton of philosophical wisdom. Derrida teaches us that there are at least three intrinsic metaphysical conceits in the notion "War on Terrorism" (War, Terror, and TerrorISM), and that our whole concept of each of these conceits is wrapped up in a way of thinking that dates back to Father Plato, a way of thinking in terms of absolutes and opposites that constrains our ability to understand the very problem we seek to address. In short, our way of thinking that divides the world into terrorists/non-terrorists, war/peace, death/life, good/bad, etc. prevents us from understanding the causes, motivations, philosphy, and goals of terrorism.

Personally, I take Derrida and deconstructionism with a grain of salt, recognize it as a true but finicky point, set it aside as reductio ad absurdum, and move on with my beloved metaphysical conceits. (I also find his delimma well-solved by harkening back to dialectics.)

But, it nevertheless is very true that for all these reasons war against an abstract noun is never easy.

[Stratos]

Originally posted by johnny: Faceman, i don't think you can buy off the Palestinians hate towards Israel. Volvo's ? Yeah right... do you have any idea how ridiculous that sounds ? Maybe they'll be happy if they get to drive it around in Jerusalem, without any Jews left in it, but other than that, i don't think this would be very realistic.

No it isn't realistic, and especially not since they can't drive around in their Volvo's freely and without being stopped in Jerusalem anyway.

You're dealing with totally different people here, who we will probably never learn to understand. We didn't understand them 1000 years ago, and we still don't understand them today.

[img]tongue.gif[/img] Johnny they're not aliens, you wouldn't have much more difficult to understand a Arab than anybody else. They've just grown up in a society that is a bit more rigid and old-fashioned than ours.

[Stratos]

Originally posted by Faceman: Fundamentalistic terrorism has fundamentalists as a basis. To become a fundamentalist you have to be either crazy or desperate.

Being a fundamentalist doesn't automatically mean that you are crazy or desperate, it's just a way to look on a religion or political idea. It means that you tend to intrepet events described by, for example, a holy scripture more literally and not as debatable or symbolic ones

[Kaltia]

Originally posted by johnny: You dare touch my beer, and there will be one more terrorist to fear. Damn, did i just come up with a good songtitle ?

more like an opening line ;p

[Grendal]

Originally posted by Faceman: Your misconception is that for every Palestinian other than for normal people his foremost goal is to conquer Jerusalem. Wrong! The goal of a Palestinian like with every other person on this world is to give his life some sense. The problem is that the only realistically achievable option that is offered to him is the conquest of Jerusalem. So he makes it his foremost goal. Arabs don't hate Israelis from their birth. They are told "Jews are bad" and the more bad things they experience (no matter from whom) the more of it they attribute to "the Jews" and nurture their hate. If they had less to complain about (if only the weather was nicer) they would not have a cause for their hatred. So I say again: Build up their economy/social structure! Only people who want to commit suicide can be suicide bombers. [/QB]

When did I say every palistinian wants to conquer anything? Im mearly trying to point out that these people THINK differant than us. (us being folks that dont live in those sort of conditions)I think when a mother is breeding children for the sole purpose of sending those children out with a bomb belt it tells you that they DO think differant. And of course Palistinians dont hate Isrealis from birth...Predjudice is a learned trait no matter how you slice it. And guess what..they have been "learning" it for generations. The majority of the populace Im sure wants peace and an end to hostilities but the militants are the ones running the show and it sure seems to me they dont want peace. If they had less to complain about they would not have cause for there hatred....that is SO not the point. A volvo, caddy, hummer and a lear jet sitting in the driveway was not gonna make that mother change her mind about sending her kids to suicide school.The only complaining they are doing is saying they are an oppressed people, so how you gonna fix THAT so they arent "complaining? And the only way they will appreciate and be proud of a better economy/social structure is if build it themselves!

Gnarf...thats the best solution Ive heard so far