Should we LOVE the Kobolds, not hate them? ~continued~

[Lord Dracon]

errr....?
So Salamanders, fish, sharks, dolphins, whales and birds are all reptiles then.
It doesn't have any scales either so how is it a reptile?

[Dragonshadow]

Hey Sythe, lets make a deal. You let me kill all the evil kobolds and I will leave the few good ones alone.
Happy?

DS

[Sythe]

Originally posted by RoSs_bg2_rox: why are you guys so obssessed with kobolds?

This is a discussion of kobold rights. Do you think if there is a group of mages talking about the history of Elminster that they are very upsessed about him? Just because this topic is about kobolds does not mean that we are, overly upsessed about them.

Originally posted by Lord Dracon: errr....? So Salamanders, fish, sharks, dolphins, whales and birds are all reptiles then. It doesn't have any scales either so how is it a reptile?

A few words:

Check the 3rd Editon Monster Manual.

I guess they are not reptalian in second editon. Sorry for the confusion.

Originally posted by Dragonshadow: Hey Sythe, lets make a deal. You let me kill all the evil kobolds and I will leave the few good ones alone. Happy? DS

Okay Dragonshadow I agree with you. Under one conditon. You let me and some of my old adventuring pals kill ALL evil Humans. That should be a hard task I say.

[The Lilarcor]

Some of you may have mistaken me when I mentioned how some died. I was more concerned with them living in a city and causing accidental fires if they were mugged or there was a riot in the streets. But still, just because most kobolds may be evil, that is not an excuse to kill them all. If they were ransacking a village, then you could go kill those involved, but if alignment is the only Prerequisite to killing kobolds, than that could be used against any species, including us humans. All races have the good and the bad, some have more good, some have more bad, and then there are some like orcs and goblins whom most are evil and then elves whom most are good and vice verca for the Drow.

If the kobolds are blindly following their evil god, it is not their fault for not wanting to be killed or tortured by him and thus they do what is commanded of them. The same is true of Paladins, Monks, Clerics and all those who worship gods... Also the fact is, they may not know any better way to act or live and may be jealous from what they have heard of our cities.

[Lord Dracon]

Does it matter if you kill a kobold if you are evil. cause drows kill for fun right [img]graemlins/evillaughter2.gif[/img]

[The Lilarcor]

No, if the drow kill for fun it is because they have been raised that way through mistradition and an evil spider god. Look at the Drow named Dritzz, he's a good drow nor does he kill for fun, he has escaped the drow way of life.
But this meeting is not about the drow or killing species for fun. The meeting is to decide whether or not all the Kobolds deserve to die, whether or not we have the right to play god in the decision to kill them and bit about possible integration.

The way it seems to me is that integration is not possible even if we decided that course for most of the people in baldurs gate would be against that, and if the average citizen is baised against elves, what would you think about them and kobolds.

We also reserve no right to kill them all and the citizenry would certainly be against this moral dilemna. If we were to send a band of soldiers to kill them, it would be because a bunch of kobolds attacked a village.

Now at the start of this meeting, the initial proposal was about integration, I say we have the people vote on it, and if they decide to integrate Kobolds, then we send emissaries to see if any will want to move to the cities, teach them basic common and some city skills. If not, then issue is decided because the Kobolds are not under the Senates jurisdiction and so we cannot decide their fates except when they attack a settlement of ours. We can't stop those like sythe from organizing the kobolds - as long as its reasonable and legal and not to conquer - and we can't stop those like Dragonshadow from attacking Kobolds.
I do not think there is much more to discuss unless we want to pass laws restricting the killing of species like kobolds to defence only.

[Lord Brass]

Originally posted by The Lilarcor: I do not think there is much more to discuss unless we want to pass laws restricting the killing of species like kobolds to defence only.

Isn't this part of what we are trying to decide? By proposing the notion of Kobold Integration, we are assuming certain things about the species:

1. They are capable of integration
2. They might want to be integrated
3. They have inherent rights which we are duly called upon to defend
4. An extension of point 3 requires us to assess the rights of that, and any other species

The question of K.I. seeks to remove the threat of random (and systemic) kobold assaults on passersby, and the inevitable retaliation, by assimilating the kobolds into mainstream Faerûn society. Mr Underhill's original premise is that everyone has a right to life, and by including kobolds, rather than excluding them, they could be brought into the mainstream where they would see that their past behaviour would not only be intolerable, but would be destructive for them as well as us.

If we are to debate (even decide) the fate of the kobolds in general, then haven't we already assumed the mantle of moral highground? If that is so, then surely we cannot be willing to arbitrarily exterminate another intelligent species.

Even if they do need a good kicking...

[Dragonshadow]

Originally posted by Sythe: . quote: Originally posted by Dragonshadow: Hey Sythe, lets make a deal. You let me kill all the evil kobolds and I will leave the few good ones alone. Happy? DS

Okay Dragonshadow I agree with you. Under one conditon. You let me and some of my old adventuring pals kill ALL evil Humans. That should be a hard task I say. [/QUOTE]Go ahead.

[Myrddin L'argenton]

Originally posted by Dragonshadow: quote: Originally posted by Sythe: . quote: Originally posted by Dragonshadow: Hey Sythe, lets make a deal. You let me kill all the evil kobolds and I will leave the few good ones alone. Happy? DS

Okay Dragonshadow I agree with you. Under one conditon. You let me and some of my old adventuring pals kill ALL evil Humans. That should be a hard task I say. [/QUOTE]Go ahead. [/QUOTE]Can I help? Paladin's are good at detecting evil

[Dragonshadow]

Originally posted by Myrddin L'argenton: quote: Originally posted by Dragonshadow: quote: Originally posted by Sythe: . quote: Originally posted by Dragonshadow: Hey Sythe, lets make a deal. You let me kill all the evil kobolds and I will leave the few good ones alone. Happy? DS

Okay Dragonshadow I agree with you. Under one conditon. You let me and some of my old adventuring pals kill ALL evil Humans. That should be a hard task I say. [/QUOTE]Go ahead. [/QUOTE]Can I help? Paladin's are good at detecting evil [/QUOTE]Sure. Dectect evil all you want. Let us kill all evil!