The American Constitution

[mysticelt]

I have followed all the ten pages. Nowhere, NOWHERE, has anyone addressed legislated COMPLIANCE!

TIMBER- You were saying how difficult it is to get a gun permit in Chicago and you just as soon not. Fanatics have legislated against gun possession to protect citizens and police in the fair city.DOES IT WORK? NO! Because law abiding citizens like Timber will not have guns but the common criminals will not be swayed. Legislation does not work against criminals!Any Good Ideas?

[Yorick]

Originally posted by MagiK: One of your big mistakes is shown here Yorick...NOT forced people to live under it....created such an epic and unprecidented thing that people give their lives trying to GET here. People every day yearn to come here and live in this society as it was created...not as it will one day turn out.

Actually New York is filled with people who wish they were eslewhere. Everyday I meet people in New York, who were originally from another place, who couldn't wait to leave their hometown. People want to move for a myriad of reasons, and not just because the place they're going to is "better". Many Americans want to go to Australia. Low crime, untouched wilderness, friendly people. Hard to imagine why not, yet why do so many Australians leave there?

It's not so black and white Magik. Discovering "how the other half live" can be an end in itself.

The issue I raised is that subsequent generations have inherited the choices made by the founding fathers. For better or for worse they have had no choice about the rules they've been born into. Even though they may be beneficial, these laws have been in a sense "forced" upon them.

[Yorick]

Originally posted by MagiK: I may be naive but I believe that they actually had a sense of honor and duty, that they unlike so many today lived by their beliefs and wanted to create something truely momentous...today....well I wouldn't give you half a washington or 1/4 of a Jefferson for a Bushel of US Senators or a Peck of Congress persons.

Then this is the issue I'm getting at. Why do you see this? I'm sure Washingtons detractors, opponents and friends all knew his failings. He can't have been perfect. Human nature has not radically shifted in the years that have followed. He was a politician and a soldier yes? Wasn't Bush senior? Perhaps the scrutiny of television didn't leave the moral failings of the founders out in the open. Catching every affair or lie. Didn't Mimi come out last week. JFK had an affair!! WOW! Wasn't that big Bill's cardinal sin?? Did JFK tell the truth at the time?

Humans are human no matter what era they are born into. Mayhap balance is necessary. Not being as judgemental and distrusting of the humans in power now, and not deifying by comparison, the humans in power then.

[Stratos]

Well I´ve read all the posts, took the better part of Sunday afternoon, and I´d like to add something that seems to have been forgotten.

Whether you are for or against gun-control, there´s something that haven´t been brought up. It´s the matter of shooting sprees in schools, offices etc. Now most people can agree that banning guns won´t have a major effect on the criminals since the, by definition, don´t follow the law anyway. But what about those people that was law-abiding and normal citizens before but somewhere along the line lost it, be it breaking up with the girlfriend or losing a job, and started to shoot innocent people. The gun they used might have very well been their own and bought legally, or "borrowed" from their dad. It´s less likely that this would had happened if they didn´t have acess to guns. Any opinions on this?

And what are the laws in the US regarding how to store a weapon? Do you have to keep gun and ammo seperated at all time and what is the punishment if failing to do so? In general, are the laws strict or less so on this matter?

Stratos, the issue of kids going on shooting spree's in my view is less about guns and more about the declining moral and ethical principals of the parents...we license guns but any two idiots can have a child...perhaps therein lies our problem? I do believe that holding parents more accountable for the actions of their children is something we need to do, we also need to quit blaming inanimate objects for our social ills....how the heck does a kid amass an arsenal and build bombs at home..without the parents having a clue? The only answer I can figure is neglect bordering on the criminal.

Originally posted by Yorick: Actually New York is filled with people who wish they were eslewhere. Everyday I meet people in New York, who were originally from another place, who couldn't wait to leave their hometown. People want to move for a myriad of reasons, and not just because the place they're going to is "better". Many Americans want to go to Australia. Low crime, untouched wilderness, friendly people. Hard to imagine why not, yet why do so many Australians leave there? So you are saying that the majority of the people you know want to leave the country? Perhaps that is more endemic of your social circle? I would say that the Millions of people seeking immigration to the US out weighs those trying to leave. I would also point out you don't see quite so many people trying to get to Aussie land or NewZealand or China or Russia as you see trying to get to the US. Edit: Err I forgot about the current wave of refugees on your northern shore in Australia...they may skew figures a bit...refugees are a different story from immigrants. It's not so black and white Magik. Discovering "how the other half live" can be an end in itself. Black and white..some times it is more black and white than you might imagine...some times things are only gray because we don't want to examine our own souls too closely. Not sure which other half you are talking about....if it is the poor and powerless other half...well thems my roots...and my own reletive success story and my interactions with immigrant business people and their success stories give me an apparently more positive attitude and view of this nation and its culture as set forth in the Constitution. The issue I raised is that subsequent generations have inherited the choices made by the founding fathers. For better or for worse they have had no choice about the rules they've been born into. Even though they may be beneficial, these laws have been in a sense "forced" upon them. Forced by birth, but are they not free to leave? all you have to do is walk accross the border to Canadian or Mexican nirvana...don't tell me they can't afford to, because that is not true. With half a brain you can earn enough to migrate your way across the country, as I have said before...if you cannot succeed in this country, then you are doomed because no where else on earth is easier to survive and prosper in. I realize my "Rabid Pride in Nation" is inexplicable to you, and all I can say is....I am what I am because of what I have done, where I have been and what I have seen....as are you perhaps. I like my view better than yours [img]smile.gif[/img] so will keep to mine and allow you yours

[ 05-28-2003, 09:12 AM: Message edited by: MagiK ]

Originally posted by mysticelt: I have followed all the ten pages. Nowhere, NOWHERE, has anyone addressed legislated COMPLIANCE! TIMBER- You were saying how difficult it is to get a gun permit in Chicago and you just as soon not. Fanatics have legislated against gun possession to protect citizens and police in the fair city.DOES IT WORK? NO! Because law abiding citizens like Timber will not have guns but the common criminals will not be swayed. Legislation does not work against criminals!Any Good Ideas?

You read all 10 pages? wow..you must have bee bored [img]smile.gif[/img] Well I can say truthfully, that I agree with what you say about legislating morality...it don't work....I mean that too...not just because you cooked Bacon for me last night [img]smile.gif[/img]

Edit: Remember to close all your font tags dear

[ 05-28-2003, 09:15 AM: Message edited by: MagiK ]

[ElricMorlockin]

Originally posted by Yorick: quote: Originally posted by ElricMorlockin: So tell me Yorick which of these is "heinous" outdated etc. No Slavery? Being given the right to vote? How about free speech or freeom of religion?

The enshrined right of the population of the most powerful Empire ever to carry weapons so powerful that a child can wipe out scores of people in a few seconds. [/QUOTE]This is laughable.
1.) We are not, nor ever have been an empire. Is this perhaps leftover residue from Australia once having been part of the British Empire? Well Yorick, lesson number one about being a US citizen. Leave your baggage from whence you came.
2.) It is not legal for a "child" to own a firearm. Instead of sticking to this mantra why dont you do a little social experiment of your own. Two different methods for your study.
a.) Try to legally purchase a firearm, say a nine mm.
b.) Try to purchase a "hot" or black market firearm.

You will be suprised as the law abiding citizen in sample "a" how much of a royal pain in the a$$ it is to legally purchase a firearm. In sample "b" you will be suprised at how easy it is. Now, what would be the first thing that popped into your rational mind regarding your experiment, knowing that convicted felons lose their second ammendment right? Could it possibly be that criminals always have and always will operate outside of the system that the law abiding do? Is it possible that you *might* discern that gun laws do NOT disarm criminals, since they are not following the law in the first place? Your own country is having problems with this very issue as we speak. In their divine wisdom they have disarmed the populace, yet dog gonnit cant seem to get those pesky little criminals to go along with the social program. [img]graemlins/blueblink.gif[/img]
Last but not least your statement was the US Constitution was "out of date" and basically "out of step" with our modern society. So, would you care to point out to the class how that is a truth considering that I took the time to list out the Constitutionally guaranteed rights of a citizen here? Which is out of date and out of step Yorick? Freedom of religion? I would agree that organized religion is the whipping boy de joure of a vast majority of the left leaning people who live here. They would like nothing more than its complete destruction, replaced of course with one of their "ISMS". Now take a wild guess at what prevents them from doing so Yorick? Could it *possibly* be the US Constitution, the very set of laws you are lambasting here? Better lets make this personal and take you for example. Upon become a sworn in citizen you will be blessed with the right to vote, which is a gurantee of the US Constitution.
Is *this* another example of it being "out of step"? You get no say for being a citizen? Or how about the big protests you like to attend, being in step with today, would make such illegal, since someone may be inconvienenced by your prescence. Is this another example of it being out of step? Last, a great example of cruel and unusual punishment was exhibited to the world in the form of Uncle Sadam's torture facilities. The Constitution guarantees that the police cannot take a car battery attach it to your genitals and fry you while trying to extract incriminating evidence against you if you happen to jay walk one day. Now *there* is an example of the Constitution being out of step with the modern era. But please, feel free to "clue me in" to what the better arrangement should be regarding a Neo-Constitution.

[ElricMorlockin]

Originally posted by Yorick: Timber, you're taking this way too seriously. I find it an interesting comment on human nature that dead men are trusted more than alive ones that's all. Take it for what it is.

You say this despite being a self espoused Christian? Very interesting insite into your thought process Yorick. Does this mean, that you dont follow the words of Jesus in your life more (as in trusting it) than you do a local minister, preacher etc? Take it for what it is? Does that mean you are not *really* a follower of the Gospels?

[Donut]

We've always done it that way

"Here is a look into the corporate mind that is very interesting, educational, historical, completely true, and hysterical all at the same time.

The US standard railroad gauge (distance between the rails) is 4 feet, 8.5 inches. That's an exceedingly odd number.

Why was that gauge used?

Because that's the way they built them in England, and the US railroads were built by English expatriates.

Why did the English build them like that?

Because the first rail lines were built by the same people who built the pre-railroad tramways, and that's the gauge they used.

Why did "they" use that gauge then?

Because the people who built the tramways used the same jigs and tools that they used for building wagons, which used that wheel spacing.

Okay! Why did the wagons have that particular odd wheel spacing?

Well, if they tried to use any other spacing, the wagon wheels would break on some of the old, long distance roads in England, because that's the spacing of the wheel ruts.

So who built those old rutted roads?

The first long distance roads in Europe (and England) were built by Imperial Rome for their legions. The roads have been used ever since. And the ruts in the roads?

The initial ruts, which everyone else had to match for fear of destroying their wagon wheels, were first formed by Roman war chariots. Since the chariots were made for (or by) Imperial Rome, they were all alike in the matter of wheel spacing. The United States standard railroad gauge of 4 feet, 8.5 inches derives from the original specification for an Imperial oman war chariot. Specifications and bureaucracies live forever.

So the next time you are handed a specification and wonder what horse's a** came up with it, you may be exactly right, because the Imperial Roman war
chariots were made just wide enough to accommodate the back ends of two war horses. Thus, we have the answer to the original question.

Now the twist to the story..............
There's an interesting extension to the story about railroad gauges and horses' behinds. When we see a Space Shuttle sitting on its launch pad, there are two big booster rockets attached to the sides of the main fuel tank.

These are solid rocket boosters, or SRBs. The SRBs are made by Thiokol at their factory at Utah. The engineers who designed the SRBs might have preferred to make them a bit fatter, but the SRBs had to be shipped by train from the factory to the launch site. The railroad line from the factory had to run through a tunnel in the mountains. The SRBs had to fit through that tunnel. The tunnel is slightly wider than the railroad track, and the railroad track is about as wide as two horses' behinds. So, the major design feature of what is arguably the world's most advanced transportation system was determined over two thousand years ago by the width of a Horse's Arse!"