Disney Forbidding Distribution of Film That Criticizes Bush Pt II

[Yorick]

Originally posted by Oblivion437: I find it funny that you say good for you, as a couple Australians say G'day to mean "kiss my ass" or mate to mean "asshole."

The problem is in your interpretation. Those words have never meant what you are suggesting.

[Oblivion437]

Did I say anything about Australia's culture, or mannerisms themselves? No, I didn't...

Read my post again.

I said that someone who was from Australia, who I'd personally talked to, had used those mannerisms in insult, and spite.

Are you calling me a liar?

Or are you trying to use your theory to pick a fight with reality?

EDIT:

Before you get all high and mighty, know what the hell you're talking about, or you end up looking utterly pompous...

[ 07-12-2004, 02:16 PM: Message edited by: Oblivion437 ]

[Ronn_Bman]

Originally posted by Chewbacca: quote: Originally posted by Ronn_Bman: I'm pretty sure I mean the same thing as you do with Pot Meet Kettle, but I will elaborate. I mean that you 'attack' or 'go personal' with the questioner as often as anyone else in this forum, but somehow you see it as different when other's do it.

Oh Bullshit, your just trying to cover up your own on-going vendetta against me with the lame and weak rational- "you do it too". Boo freaking hoo.

Nothing quite like taking the high road is there.

Vendetta? Now your really making me laugh. I'm calling a spade a spade.

I was not refering to anyone on this forum with the statement in question Ronn, but to websites like Hardy's or michealmoorehates America.com. The only time I did mention my opinion that the question posed in the film as being more important than the film's critisms on these forums, one of Moore's biggest critics here addressed it head on and agreed it was a subject worth exploring.

Great, let's talk about it. I'm not opposed to that and never have been.

Go ahead and continue your seemingly personal vendetta against me, I grow more and more amused each time. [img]smile.gif[/img]

I'm always glad to make a fellow Ironworker happy, but this has become tiresome. Based on your responses, you aren't even trying to understand what I'm saying. I'm either ignoring the fact, believing the hype, hiding behind a personal attack, ignoring the issue, etc... You've obviously missed what I was trying to say Maybe you read what you wanted to read out of my post, but maybe I just phrased it poorly. Ultimately you can believe I have a vendetta against you if you wish.

Cheers

P.S. I ended with Cheers because it does seem to have a friendly feel. To me a strongly worded post followed with Good Day imparts a slight 'Kiss My A**' tone. I don't say that to piss you off and from what you've said, it is not your intent. In fact you say your intent with ending each post in a similar way is to be nice, and I can believe that. Weird how a couple of words can mean something so different based on our own individual experiences, isn't it? [/QUOTE]

[Grojlach]

Not sure if these were posted already, but here are Moore's attempts at defending all of the claims made in F9/11. Might be an interesting read, if you keep an open mind.

http://www.michaelmoore.com/warroom/f911notes/

[ 07-12-2004, 04:25 PM: Message edited by: Grojlach ]

[Ronn_Bman]

I tried to keep my mind open, but I already have to wonder about the very first claim. [img]smile.gif[/img]

What does the fact that Fox called Florida for Bush have to do with anything? NBC changed their call on Florida the very same minute, while ABC waits a full 4 minutes. So what if a Bush relative was working the Fox desk? What does that have to do with NBC changing their call the same minute. Does the Fox exec have pull at NBC and CBS? Does Fox get to decide the election?

Michael Moore takes facts and manipulates them into conspiracy theories that make no sense.

[John D Harris]

Originally posted by Cerek the Barbaric: In an attempt to drag this thread back on topic - I noticed in one of the earlier posts that comments were being made regarding the impact this film will have on the Presidential election. But among all the enthusiastic speculations, one Senator mentioned that the impact of this film will largely "wear off" by the time November comes around. I'm sure many that have seen the film disagree, but I'm talking about the impact it will have on the conservatives that saw it. One person that was quoted in the article was a wealthy white collar person that said (as he leaned against his Lexus) that he would have to seriously reconsider voting for George Bush in November. That may be the case now, but I really doubt his resolve will last - especially when he remembers the benefits Republican Administrations grant people of his income level. However, Moore is a smart man. I haven't seen any official announcements, but I would bet a dollar to a donut hole that F 9/11 will be released on DVD and VHS the first week of November. This will give many viewers the chance to "recapture" the doubt they have regarding George Bush after seeing the film. It will also be a chance for many NEW viewers to see the film for the first time - and by timing it just 3-4 weeks before the election, Moore would stand a good chance of swinging some votes with his movie. That's my prediction regarding F9/11's release anyway. We'll see if it happens or not.

I'd bet the farm and the girl down the road that it has as close to zero effect on the election. I've hear some that claim to be liberal say: F9/11 is too far out, and some that claim to be conservative say wow I'll have to rethink this election. F9/11 is Preaching to the Choir, the vast overwhelming majority of them that support F9/11 would supported that view before seeing the Movie. The same is true for the other side. They were either in Moore's camp before the movie, or not in his camp before the movie. I bet I can count the change overs on all my appendages, 21

[wellard]

Originally posted by Oblivion437: It does reflect very badly on you that you use the "I have too much of a life" cop-out to run away while your strawmen get burned. I find it funny that you say good for you, as a couple Australians say G'day to mean "kiss my ass" or mate to mean "asshole." It takes me an average of 10 minutes to construct a reply, and that's if I do serious fact-checking... Are you saying you never have 10 minutes to spare?

Originally posted by Oblivion437: I didn't call Australians two-faced. I merely mentioned how Australians I know use typically sunny-dispositioned mannerisms as insults. It would be like me saying have a nice day while flipping you off, except more subtle.

Originally posted by Oblivion437: Did I say anything about Australia's culture, or mannerisms themselves? No, I didn't... Read my post again. I said that someone who was from Australia, who I'd personally talked to, had used those mannerisms in insult, and spite. Are you calling me a liar? Or are you trying to use your theory to pick a fight with reality? EDIT: Before you get all high and mighty, know what the hell you're talking about, or you end up looking utterly pompous...

Now I'm not an expert on the finese of the English launguage by any means but I think I have a good grip on maths. It has gone from "a couple Australians" in the first post to "Australians I know" in the second to "I said that someone who was from Australia, who I'd personally talked to"

Just for clarification are we talking one, two, or more Australians? [img]graemlins/1ponder.gif[/img]

[Oblivion437]

I'm sorry if the use of someone may have been misleading...

I didn't mean to isolate an individual with that operator...

They aren't people I know very well, to say the least, but their inflection of tone, facial expression, and the words following/preceeding those words left me thinking they were being sarcastic.

I hope no one's going to suggest that Australians haven't discovered the gift of sarcasm, and wouldn't thusly use positively-connotated mannerisms as devices of insult. Certainly, when a fella I know brought a movie over that I'd been meaning to see, I said to him, "You son of a bitch, where the hell did you get that?" I wasn't insulting him. I had the broadest of grins on my face (which is rare, I have very bad teeth) and was quite happy of course. It was understood.

This is the last post I will make on this red herring, as I've been strawmanned every step of the way.

[ 07-13-2004, 08:58 AM: Message edited by: Oblivion437 ]

[Grojlach]

I guess tolerance of someone else's views and freedom of expression doesn't work with drunk country fans (and they seemed to have left their sense of humor in their other pair of pants ). What happened to "you have the right to voice your opinions, and I have the right to not listen"? And how long before she'll be boycotted, Dixie Chick-style?

Casino ejects Ronstadt over 'Fahrenheit' praise

LOS ANGELES, California (Reuters) -- Singer Linda Ronstadt was thrown out of the Aladdin casino in Las Vegas on the weekend after dedicating a song to liberal film maker Michael Moore and his movie "Fahrenheit 9/11," a casino spokeswoman said Monday.
Ronstadt, who had been hired for a one-show engagement Saturday night at the Las Vegas Strip casino, dedicated a performance of "Desperado" to Moore and his controversial documentary, which criticizes President Bush and the U.S.-led war in Iraq.
That dedication angered some Aladdin guests who spilled drinks, tore down posters and demanded their money back, said casino spokeswoman Sara Gorgon.
"We had quite a scene at the box office," she said.
About a quarter of the 4,500 people in the audience got up and left before the performance had finished, Gorgon said.
Before her concert, Ronstadt had laughingly told the Las Vegas Review-Journal that she hoped that the casino performance would be her last.
"I keep hoping that if I'm annoying enough to them, they won't hire me back," she was quoted as telling the newspaper.
A statement issued by the Aladdin said Ronstadt had been "escorted out of the hotel" just after her performance and said the performer would "not be welcomed back."
"Ms. Ronstadt was hired to entertain the guests of the Aladdin, not to espouse political views," the casino said.
Ronstadt was not immediately available for comment.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/SHOWBIZ/Musi...eut/index.html

[ 07-20-2004, 03:05 AM: Message edited by: Grojlach ]

[Ronn_Bman]

Originally posted by Grojlach: I guess tolerance of someone else's views and freedom of expression doesn't work with drunk country fans (and they seemed to have left their sense of humor in their other pair of pants ). What happened to "you have the right to voice your opinions, and I have the right to not listen"?

What happened to "I paid admission to hear you sing and to be entertained, not to be enlightened as to your political point of view?" She, of course, can believe whatever she likes, but just as a football player would be booed for stopping the game and dedicating a goal, she deserved to be booed.

Besides, as an entertainer, she should know her audience. If she wanted to dedicate a song to Michael Moore, she could have done it at the Democratic Convention and received a standing ovation. At least she was tasteful, unlike a certain Ms. Goldberg's antics.

Now that doesn't excuse the behavior of the guests who were upset, but I think we've all managed to agree that there are hooligans on both sides of the issues.

"Ms. Ronstadt was hired to entertain the guests of the Aladdin, not to espouse political views," the casino said.

I'd say that pretty much sums it up. [img]smile.gif[/img]

[ 07-20-2004, 11:17 AM: Message edited by: Ronn_Bman ]