Taking out the trash in Yemen!!!

[Timber Loftis]

MagiK, I see you pirated the Elder Orbs into your sig. so you could keep them forever. They definately suit you.

In this country, as with others out there, we are free enough in out thinking that we can dislike the government all we want, and even be vocal about it. There is ultimately a price we pay for this freedom, as with all freedoms. JW Lindh is one such price.

But, too, he may also point out the fact that a young kidm with a few radical ideas and a bit of disgust with the world, is an easy target for terrorists. They run their US-side operations as non-profit international aid programs. Look at the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine ("PFLP") that took its case to the Supreme Court during the Clinton years, challenging the government's limits on its operations and arrest of its immigrant members. A local neighborhood aid organization non-profit becomes a very dangerous tool. Mohammad Atta, the main operations planner of Sept. 11 once they were in the states, was recruited in the same way, when he was a city planning student in Europe who couldn't find a job to go to back home in Cairo.

Originally posted by Timber Loftis: MagiK, I see you pirated the Elder Orbs into your sig. so you could keep them forever. They definately suit you. I think they do [img]smile.gif[/img] and it is thanks to Lady Moiraine that I knew where to get them [img]smile.gif[/img] In this country, as with others out there, we are free enough in out thinking that we can dislike the government all we want, and even be vocal about it. There is ultimately a price we pay for this freedom, as with all freedoms. JW Lindh is one such price. But, too, he may also point out the fact that a young kidm with a few radical ideas and a bit of disgust with the world, is an easy target for terrorists. They run their US-side operations as non-profit international aid programs. Look at the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine ("PFLP") that took its case to the Supreme Court during the Clinton years, challenging the government's limits on its operations and arrest of its immigrant members. A local neighborhood aid organization non-profit becomes a very dangerous tool. Mohammad Atta, the main operations planner of Sept. 11 once they were in the states, was recruited in the same way, when he was a city planning student in Europe who couldn't find a job to go to back home in Cairo.

A young kid with radical ideas, indulgent/negligent parents and too much money for a kid to realy be accountable to use properly.

If I remember correctly when they interviewd the parents way back when, you could tell that they really didn't provide the kid with any kind of guidance or real foundation for him to base his life on. You almost have to blame the parents as much as the kid in some respects.

[Moiraine]

Originally posted by MagiK: Doesn't matter who believes who, it doesnt alter the fact that if you make it a gaurenteed death sentence to be a big shot in Al-queda they will quit applying for the job, or at the least it will rid the world of some undesireables.

I don't believe so - these people are fanatics who believe 1) that Allah will welcome them to haven when they die and 2) that if they are killed, all the better, since they will be seen as martyrs ...

Oh, and I would reply to your earlier comment about my previous post, if it wouldn't be rude to the discussion thread, since it's two days and a hundred posts behind.

Originally posted by Moiraine: Oh, and I would reply to your earlier comment about my previous post, if it wouldn't be rude to the discussion thread, since it's two days and a hundred posts behind.

I don't recall commenting on your post, I did report what I found at the web site, I thought it was sad the way the reactionaries ruined the thing. Even if they disagree with the sentiment they shouldnt have done what they did. Or were you refering to my thoughts on irony of artists declaring themselves the champions of truth and justice?

[Moiraine]

Originally posted by MagiK: I don't recall commenting on your post, I did report what I found at the web site, I thought it was sad the way the reactionaries ruined the thing. Even if they disagree with the sentiment they shouldnt have done what they did. Or were you refering to my thoughts on irony of artists declaring themselves the champions of truth and justice?

Well. I posted a very neutral post saying a truism, really - that not all US people share your views about the "war on terrorism" issue. I did and adressed you specifically because you had posted by far the biggest number of posts in the thread, and since you stated your own opinion so vehemently, I felt there was a need of counterbalance. I didn't have much time to elaborate, and besides it seemed to me that the people on the petition site wrote much better than I could have.

Now about how you replied, I just would like to say that the fact that your opinion may be common doesn't necessarily mean that it is right. And the fact that you ridiculed that opinion on the basis that only 327 people signed it in quite unfair - only artists may sign it, the petition is very young and more people are signing it, and many more people than the 300 people in there share their view to some extent. From what I read in French newspapers, many French people share their reservations about the way the US intend to handle the war on terrorism too.

And saying that these artists "make a living on distorting the way people see everyday objects and concepts" - uh, that's so wrong and you know it ! Or have you never heard of stuff called "allegory" and "metaphor" ?

Originally posted by Moiraine: Well. I posted a very neutral post saying a truism, really - that not all US people share your views about the "war on terrorism" issue. I did and adressed you specifically because you had posted by far the biggest number of posts in the thread, and since you stated your own opinion so vehemently, I felt there was a need of counterbalance. I didn't have much time to elaborate, and besides it seemed to me that the people on the petition site wrote much better than I could have. You were right that the site was well written. I don't know how vehement I was being, but I guess that is up to each reader to decide. But we all know I am not shy about sharing my opinion. (the good thing is that I know its only an opinion) Now about how you replied, I just would like to say that the fact that your opinion may be common doesn't necessarily mean that it is right. And the fact that you ridiculed that opinion on the basis that only 327 people signed it in quite unfair - only artists may sign it, the petition is very young and more people are signing it, and many more people than the 300 people in there share their view to some extent. From what I read in French newspapers, many French people share their reservations about the way the US intend to handle the war on terrorism too. I quite agree that numbers do not make right, it doesnt matter how many people believe the world is flat, it is still going to be round. I think quite afew of the signatoree's were not in agreement with the petition hence my statement against the people who had vandalised the site. I know you are quite correct in that a lot of people in France and Europe as a whole disagree with the US position on terrorists and Iraq. But here too it really doesnt matter how many people believe someting or how heartfelt their belief, some times the US has to do what it has to do. The US doesnt always agree with actions taken by France or Germany and we gripe and moan about it, but in the end, they go the way the think they must. I really want to express that I detest the fact that such a significant portion of the signers were just people who wanted to cause trouble for the petition. And saying that these artists "make a living on distorting the way people see everyday objects and concepts" - uh, that's so wrong and you know it ! Or have you never heard of stuff called "allegory" and "metaphor" ?

You are quite correct, that was kind of a jab, but my comment was not all together untrue either. That petition is the first time I have ever heard a group of artists declare that it is their moral obligation as artists to stand up for truth. Lately the groups of artists I hear about are the ones demanding that a sculpture of Jesus made out of feces is art, and those sorts. But you are right. I was being mean to artists with my comment.

[ 11-07-2002, 11:46 AM: Message edited by: MagiK ]

[Thoran]

http://www.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/asiapc...eda/index.html

Here's their response to hitting their guys. They know they can't produce the guys we've killed... so instead of claiming we didn't get them they're attempting to save face by claiming responsibility for recent bombing and attack activity (their recent efforts have been fairly impotent except for Bali, I'm surprised they didn't go back to 9/11 for material).

[ 11-07-2002, 12:14 PM: Message edited by: Thoran ]

[Timber Loftis]

Article said they are "targeting whorehouses." Wierdos. I wonder how much total carnage male sexual insecurity has brought upon the planet.

What did a house full of hookers ever do to them? Or is that supposed to be some major establishment run by the Great Satan?

[johnny]

Al Qaeda declared war on the whorehouses ? Now i'm confused.