Treatment of prisoners (yep, those ones...)

[Melusine]

Rikard, have you listened to even a word of what I said??
If your warning was so general and not at all related to this topic, then why post it here? Sheesh dear, I've seen you make similar posts before and not a single time were they aimed at another country than the USA.
I still believe you mean well, I think I know you well enough to know you are not the sort of person to deliberately offend people, but you REALLY should try and gain a little more insight in the different ways in which people's minds work before you post stuff like this.

"If one Idiot comes with great talkin skills"

LOL, you mean like... Bush? [img]tongue.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/hehe.gif[/img]
Come on, seriously: the Americans would probably be the last people to blindly follow a leader!! They question everything their government does before they either approve or disagree with it! The whole point about the patriotism is that they take pride in freedom of speech, being free, etc. You really need to try and look at it from their point of view - you cannot presume to judge about their culture if you're not even willing to admit it *is* difficult for someone from another culture to judge at all!

Please read the post I wrote above again. There is a HUGE difference between the German nationalism in the previous century and American patriotism - they cannot and should not be compared.

[norompanlasolas]

quote:

---

Originally posted by MagiK:
Mayhap we are sick unto death of whiney pacifistic idiots who take a media story based on sensationalism and absolutley no facts as the gods honest true fact...
...As for the USA I truely believe we have taken enough shit from every whiney little pissant around the world, I think its high time we let the lion roar (and quit letting the tail wag the dog) and let anyone who wants to come screw with us take their best shot...
...When did men become afraid to be men and start letting efeminate little wussies tell us to "be nice to them, don't hurt them, they didnt know what they were doing was wrong" Each of the terrorists had the option to walk away at any point in time. They chose to try and destroy us, so now it is our turn to decide to destroy them.

---

im not going to jump in defense of the pacificists whom you called whiney and idiots or whiney little pissants whom you've taken shit from, or gays whom you called effeminete little wussies cause im not a pacifist, not gay and i dont think the us has taken shit from me. they can defend themselves cause they are big enough to do it.

i have to say that i cant imagine how someone can get so angry whilst standing in front of a computer monitor. i mean, ive been to confrontations, fights, riots, police evictions by force of free houses (squatters), jail, protests, student meetings, etc etc... and ive seen less anger and more control in people in those situations than ive seen in some posting here.

as i said before, this is a forum. no matter how angry you get, youre not going to achieve anything. be cool. i dont know, maybe im slow to anger, or maybe i dont care. but i hardly feel anything said here can affect me that much as so to start insulting people. well, thats it i guess. [img]smile.gif[/img]

[Rikard_OHF]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Melusine:
[QB]Rikard, have you listened to even a word of what I said??
If your warning was so general and not at all related to this topic, then why post it here? Sheesh dear, I've seen you make similar posts before and not a single time were they aimed at another country than the USA.
I still believe you mean well, I think I know you well enough to know you are not the sort of person to deliberately offend people, but you REALLY should try and gain a little more insight in the different ways in which people's minds work before you post stuff like this.
QB]

---

Yes ma'am

Actually the reason why they were never aimed to another country then the US is because ain't about another country
While I was online there were never stuff about patriotism in other countries

And about the insight
I have trouble understanding the reasons behind Patriotism and thus I can't understand why people have it...
It's the way my poor mind works

quote:

---

Originally posted by Konfuzed and Zany:
MagiK
lemme explain
I'm NOT comparing the US with Nazi-Germany
I'm Just saying the Blind Following of people is dangerous
And This attack upon you country had lead to patriotism
I don;t like it but it's not dangerous
What IS dangerous was the increase of attacks vs the muslim communities
If one Idiot comes with great talkin skills
He can start compleet isolation
What I say is Way off-Topic
It's not aboput The US
It's not About the prisoners
It's about Blindly following a leader and finding you country more important than any other
The Germans Were good people
Those who voted for the Nazis were mostly good people too
They meant no harm
they were captured by this guys talkin skills
All I'm Saying is TO BE CAREFUL
this must not happen to a country so strong and powerful as the US
Think about it before...

---

Hmmm if that is the case then I totaly misread what your intention in the post was (and I know for sure I was not the only one). But that being the case if this is what you were getting at, then I totaly agree...one of my biggest pet peeves is how sheep like people can be.

While sheep are fine animals it really irks me to see people acting like them.

So I apologize for blasting your post, since you apparently did not mean what I interpreted you to mean.

The USA has more than its fair share of ignorant boobs when it comes to racism and things of that nature (re those attacks on innocent arab immigrants). I also know that it only makes sense that if every time you get hit between the eyes with a ball-peen hammer it is by a guy wearing a red hat...it only makes sense to be a might jumpy every time you see someone wearing a red hat....I would also say that it might help a groups cause, that they not as a community shiled those who would do violence to their adopted land. There is some evidence that the terrorists were to some degree accepted and protected by their fellow countrymen/immagrants....the neighbors may not have known what these men planned, but in some cases it was known that they were here illegally...dut since everyone is trying to beat the immagration laws..hey it was an accepted thing....

[Sir Taliesin]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Melusine:
Rikard, have you listened to even a word of what I said??
If your warning was so general and not at all related to this topic, then why post it here? Sheesh dear, I've seen you make similar posts before and not a single time were they aimed at another country than the USA.
I still believe you mean well, I think I know you well enough to know you are not the sort of person to deliberately offend people, but you REALLY should try and gain a little more insight in the different ways in which people's minds work before you post stuff like this.

"If one Idiot comes with great talkin skills"

LOL, you mean like... Bush? [img]tongue.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/hehe.gif[/img]
Come on, seriously: the Americans would probably be the last people to blindly follow a leader!! They question everything their government does before they either approve or disagree with it! The whole point about the patriotism is that they take pride in freedom of speech, being free, etc. You really need to try and look at it from their point of view - you cannot presume to judge about their culture if you're not even willing to admit it *is* difficult for someone from another culture to judge at all!

Please read the post I wrote above again. There is a HUGE difference between the German nationalism in the previous century and American patriotism - they cannot and should not be compared.

---

Mel, Hugs and kisses from me!!! (Just don't let my wife find out!)
What a great post that was!!! Thank you!

[Rikard_OHF]

quote:

---

Originally posted by MagiK:
[QB]


Hmmm if that is the case then I totaly misread what your intention in the post was (and I know for sure I was not the only one). But that being the case if this is what you were getting at, then I totaly agree...one of my biggest pet peeves is how sheep like people can be.

While sheep are fine animals it really irks me to see people acting like them.

So I apologize for blasting your post, since you apparently did not mean what I interpreted you to mean.
[QB]

---

To be Honest
Rereading the post I had to think back to understand where i was going to aswell
Bad Post
Shouldn't have been posted

[Grand-Ranger]

I think yall beter start a new thread soon.

[Garnet FalconDance]

I'm bumping this....not because I think it needs more debate, but because it is an excellant illustration (in the past two or three pages) of how we all sometimes misinterpret others' words or type before we think and end up adding to the turmoil in defense.

Thanks, Melusine, for your posts (after we got our little misunderstanding ironed out [img]smile.gif[/img] ) They have been concise and well written.

There are a few who have, intentionally or not, thrown fuel on the fire, added a match and then sat back and acted innocent when everything blew up. Notice, I said some were unintentional. And I, for one, fired back. I do not retract anything I said since I do not believe anything I said to be harmful, untruthful or flame-bait. But I do regret/resent feeling the need to defend what I perceived as a slight to myself, my beliefs and my country. I find that shameful in a forum of intelligent and usually compassionate people.

If another related thread should open, I will be there! Count on it [img]smile.gif[/img]

One of my favorite saying is: "There is no reality, there is only perception." Think about it. It makes a lot of sense.

[norompanlasolas]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Garnet FalconDance:
There are a few who have, intentionally or not, thrown fuel on the fire, added a match and then sat back and acted innocent when everything blew up. Notice, I said some were unintentional. And I, for one, fired back. I do not retract anything I said since I do not believe anything I said to be harmful, untruthful or flame-bait. But I do regret/resent feeling the need to defend what I perceived as a slight to myself, my beliefs and my country. I find that shameful in a forum of intelligent and usually compassionate people.

---

well, i dont agree garnet. i did not see posts that inflammatory as you say, except maybe a couple that were a bit out of hand. furthermore, if you read the thread "carefully" you will notice that except a couple of posts that were on the offensive from the "they are treating the prisoners badly" guys, the rest of them were them just them trying not to get slaughtered for their opinions.

[Barry the Sprout]

This is going slightly back onto the topic that caused the problem but I hope that it simply illustrates where people like me and Rikard are coming from. I think Mel is right, it simply shows a cultural difference between the US and Europe.

When I was on a politics conference in Washington last summer a very nice man came from the Pentagon to give us a speech about state security. When it came to the questions some people from the working group on Nationalism (there were 9 working groups in the conference, I was in Environment, not through choice either I might add... ) a student asked the question:

"What is your view of the impact of Nationalism, can it be a positive force?".

The speaker answered after a while saying:

"Let me be very clear about this... Nationalism is a poison.".

This recieved a resounding round of applause from 90% of the people there. But it also made me think. I remembered a point earlier in his speech when he had been describing WW2 and had said that America was the only country involved that had had a vote before joining in. When he had said this he concluded it with something to the effect of:

"This is the United States of America!"

And then he paused... it was obvious he wanted a round of appluase for that statement, which he eventually got along with some half hearted cheering (only half the audience were American). To me the two statements combined make him a hypocrite, as the second one is nationalism in my view. But he didn't think so, he had a different meaning for nationalism to my one. That is why I think you have hit the nail on the head Mel - there are cultural differences at work here that seem to be making sure everyone involved is offended.

Just as an aside (more comedy than anything) it was further brought home to me later on in the conference week when some people from the Nationalism working group reported back on what they had been discussing to the Western Europe delegation (we were split into delegations according to country and each delegation had two or three representatives in each working group). Because there weren't enough Western Europeans there 10 Americans were roleplaying as being from Western Europe. One of them was our representative in the Nationalism group and it was her doing the reporting back. She said:

"We've mostly been discussing Nationalism in the military and we (the Western European reps) think it's quite a good idea!"

Nationalism in the military... western europe... a good idea... yeaaaah...

Me and a German guy got a bit angry... he said something along the lines of:

"I think dying for your country is sick!"

And I started trying to quote Remarq's (sp?) All Quiet on the Western Front. Basically we made her cry between the pair of us. I didn't realise at the time but most of her family were in the navy and she took quite a lot of the stuff we said personally. Cultural differences... gotta love'em!