What is the definition of good (and evil)? - Page 2

lost prophet · 08-30-2005, 11:48 AM

an evil person is someone who does things only for there own enjoyment. by deliberatly hurting someone for the hell of it you are getting enjoyment out of it so therefore in your first post vaskez your definition of "selfcentered" and "evil" are basically the same thing but on a subconscious level right?

Zebodog · 08-30-2005, 12:00 PM

I'm not sure if an evil person is someone who does things only for their own enjoyment. Selfish yes, but not necessarily evil.

Selfishness isn't necessarily evil, but evilness (is that actually a word) could be considered selfish.

shadowhound · 08-30-2005, 06:31 PM

A "good" person is someone who follows society's set of moral standards, while an "evil" person is someone who does not.

Good and Evil are human creations and as such are open to debate over if they actually exist or if its just a matter of perception.

vesselle · 08-30-2005, 06:40 PM

so, vaskez, you believe there's only 2 kinds of people in this world?
sounds simply medieval to me. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

V***V

[ 08-30-2005, 06:41 PM: Message edited by: vesselle ]

Aelia Jusa · 08-31-2005, 05:24 AM

I think psychopaths would be the only people that you could qualify as evil. They lack any type of empathy or regard for the welfare, rights, or property of others and usually actively attempt to violate the rights, welfare, and property of others to gain whatever they see as valuable. But there aren't that many psychopaths. Not every murderer or rapist or similar is a psychopath; in fact most aren't. So if there was a dichotomy then, those people must be good.

I don't think that if you aren't evil that necessarily makes you good though, if there is any sort of classification system of this sort then it would definitely work on a continuum. And would a truly good person never act selfishly or do anything that harmed others? If so then there must be no truly good people in the world, which I would find it extremely discouraging.

Maybe there aren't good and evil people but good and evil acts. And acts that are neither.

Sever · 08-31-2005, 05:33 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Aelia Jusa:
Maybe there aren't good and evil people but good and evil acts. And acts that are neither.

That sums it up nicely. Though one could be generalised as being good or evil (or neutral) through their tendancy to perform such acts.

I don't think you're going to find much better than this, Vaskez. [img]smile.gif[/img]

BTW, what's a dichotomy? [img]graemlins/1ponder.gif[/img]

Iron Greasel · 08-31-2005, 10:42 AM

I claim that people do everything for their own personal enjoyment. Give money to charity because it makes them feel good. Help other so that others would help them. Which would mean that everyone are evil and some just show it differently.

Vaskez · 08-31-2005, 10:47 AM

^^yeah I've thought about that before as well. Who is truly good when even plain giving GIVES YOU a good feeling, so you are again, the beneficiary. BUT there are plain selfless acts. Think about this for example: you love someone but they love someone else. They want you to let them go. It'd hurt you a lot but you love them enough to do as they wish. That way you're not really gaining anything: a true selfless act. What I was saying is people who do things like that, do what's good for others even if it's bad for them, are truly good.

Aelia Jusa · 08-31-2005, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sever:

quote:
Originally posted by Aelia Jusa:
Maybe there aren't good and evil people but good and evil acts. And acts that are neither.

That sums it up nicely. Though one could be generalised as being good or evil (or neutral) through their tendancy to perform such acts.

I don't think you're going to find much better than this, Vaskez. [img]smile.gif[/img]

BTW, what's a dichotomy? [img]graemlins/1ponder.gif[/img] [/QUOTE]Yeah, but how? Would one evil act make you an evil person? Two? Ten? It would be impossible to decide how to determine what proportion of good or evil acts would be sufficient to classify people into these discrete categories so having them would be pointless.

A dichotomy is when you have two and only two opposing positions, like black/white without acknowledging the various shades of grey in between.

Sever · 09-01-2005, 01:00 AM

Then a dichotomy, in this instance, is well and truly out. The overwhelming majority of people/things which can be called good or evil fall into the grey area.

How? How many? As with anything that can be generalised, it's dependant on the views and ethics and a dozen other characteristics of whoever is doing the generalising. Totally within the eye of the beholder. When you consider that good/neutral/evil alignments are themselves characteristics of all people (and therefore factors in the decision), you realise that it is virtually impossible for a person/thing to be definitively labled as G/N/E. (It does your head in, eh?) Except by popular consensus which is basically an opinion formed by a group of like-minded individuals. Opinion. Which puts the whole topic of arguement squarely within the realm of rhetoric. As i pointed out in my first post.

I agree with you Aelia. My last post was only to give Vask some sense of closure. Now if you'll excuse me, my head's about to explode...

[Edit: Like-minded individuals is now my new, favourite misnomer...]

[ 09-01-2005, 01:02 AM: Message edited by: Sever ]

08-30-2005, 11:48 AM	#11
lost prophet Drow Warrior Join Date: October 23, 2004 Location: Perth, Western Australia, Australia Age: 34 Posts: 297	an evil person is someone who does things only for there own enjoyment. by deliberatly hurting someone for the hell of it you are getting enjoyment out of it so therefore in your first post vaskez your definition of "selfcentered" and "evil" are basically the same thing but on a subconscious level right? __________________ I have a dream, we all have dreams.

08-30-2005, 12:00 PM	#12
Zebodog Avatar Join Date: May 14, 2005 Location: Edmonton Age: 75 Posts: 578	I'm not sure if an evil person is someone who does things only for their own enjoyment. Selfish yes, but not necessarily evil. Selfishness isn't necessarily evil, but evilness (is that actually a word) could be considered selfish. __________________ Disclaimer: If this thread, or a link within this thread leads you to follow advice that crashes/explodes/burns down or any way damages your system or causes personal stress or hardship, I am in no way responsible for any problems.

08-30-2005, 06:31 PM	#13
shadowhound Ma'at - Goddess of Truth & Justice Join Date: November 24, 2001 Location: Australia Age: 39 Posts: 3,281	A "good" person is someone who follows society's set of moral standards, while an "evil" person is someone who does not. Good and Evil are human creations and as such are open to debate over if they actually exist or if its just a matter of perception. __________________ Carpe Noctem: Ph’nglui mglw’nafh cthulhu r’lyeh wgah’nagl fhtagn.

08-30-2005, 06:40 PM	#14
vesselle Hathor Join Date: April 6, 2001 Location: the desert Posts: 2,296	so, vaskez, you believe there's only 2 kinds of people in this world? sounds simply medieval to me. [img]tongue.gif[/img] V***V [ 08-30-2005, 06:41 PM: Message edited by: vesselle ] __________________ my best friend is a junkie. what does your best friend do?

08-31-2005, 05:24 AM	#15
Aelia Jusa Iron Throne Cult Join Date: August 23, 2001 Location: Brisbane, Australia Age: 44 Posts: 4,867	I think psychopaths would be the only people that you could qualify as evil. They lack any type of empathy or regard for the welfare, rights, or property of others and usually actively attempt to violate the rights, welfare, and property of others to gain whatever they see as valuable. But there aren't that many psychopaths. Not every murderer or rapist or similar is a psychopath; in fact most aren't. So if there was a dichotomy then, those people must be good. I don't think that if you aren't evil that necessarily makes you good though, if there is any sort of classification system of this sort then it would definitely work on a continuum. And would a truly good person never act selfishly or do anything that harmed others? If so then there must be no truly good people in the world, which I would find it extremely discouraging. Maybe there aren't good and evil people but good and evil acts. And acts that are neither. __________________

08-31-2005, 10:42 AM	#17
Iron Greasel Fzoul Chembryl Join Date: July 13, 2004 Location: Finland Age: 36 Posts: 1,701	I claim that people do everything for their own personal enjoyment. Give money to charity because it makes them feel good. Help other so that others would help them. Which would mean that everyone are evil and some just show it differently. __________________

08-31-2005, 10:47 AM	#18
Vaskez Takhisis Follower Join Date: April 30, 2001 Location: szép Magyarország (well not right now) Posts: 5,089	^^yeah I've thought about that before as well. Who is truly good when even plain giving GIVES YOU a good feeling, so you are again, the beneficiary. BUT there are plain selfless acts. Think about this for example: you love someone but they love someone else. They want you to let them go. It'd hurt you a lot but you love them enough to do as they wish. That way you're not really gaining anything: a true selfless act. What I was saying is people who do things like that, do what's good for others even if it's bad for them, are truly good. __________________ Too set in his ways to ever relate If he could set that aside, there'd be heaven to pay But weathered and aged, time swept him to grave Love conquers all? Damn, I'd say that area's gray

09-01-2005, 01:00 AM	#20
Sever Ma'at - Goddess of Truth & Justice Join Date: October 31, 2002 Location: Western Australia Age: 44 Posts: 3,293	Then a dichotomy, in this instance, is well and truly out. The overwhelming majority of people/things which can be called good or evil fall into the grey area. How? How many? As with anything that can be generalised, it's dependant on the views and ethics and a dozen other characteristics of whoever is doing the generalising. Totally within the eye of the beholder. When you consider that good/neutral/evil alignments are themselves characteristics of all people (and therefore factors in the decision), you realise that it is virtually impossible for a person/thing to be definitively labled as G/N/E. (It does your head in, eh?) Except by popular consensus which is basically an opinion formed by a group of like-minded individuals. Opinion. Which puts the whole topic of arguement squarely within the realm of rhetoric. As i pointed out in my first post. I agree with you Aelia. My last post was only to give Vask some sense of closure. Now if you'll excuse me, my head's about to explode... [Edit: Like-minded individuals is now my new, favourite misnomer...] [ 09-01-2005, 01:02 AM: Message edited by: Sever ] __________________ Say say, oh playmate i cannot play with you my dolly's got the flu boo hoo hoo hoo hoo hoo

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