question about religion, philosophy

Originally posted by Timber Loftis: So, the fact I take my morals from places other than the myth a Christian believes in does not detract from the value therein.

Or do you? You just said all your jurisprudence people were basing their laws on Christian faith, the foundation of the Christian Faith is the.....Duh, Duh Duh!!! BIBLE [img]smile.gif[/img] so you must get your morals from the same place I do

[ 06-09-2003, 02:10 PM: Message edited by: MagiK ]

[Rokenn]

Originally posted by MagiK: quote: Originally posted by Timber Loftis: So, the fact I take my morals from places other than the myth a Christian believes in does not detract from the value therein.

Or do you? You just said all your jurisprudence people were basing their laws on Christian faith, the foundation of the Christian Faith is the.....Duh, Duh Duh!!! BIBLE [img]smile.gif[/img] so you must get your morals from the same place I do [/QUOTE]Are we going to go back to the old arguement that you have to be a 'believer' to be a moral person?

[Yorick]

Originally posted by Rokenn: quote: Originally posted by MagiK: quote: Originally posted by Timber Loftis: So, the fact I take my morals from places other than the myth a Christian believes in does not detract from the value therein.

Or do you? You just said all your jurisprudence people were basing their laws on Christian faith, the foundation of the Christian Faith is the.....Duh, Duh Duh!!! BIBLE [img]smile.gif[/img] so you must get your morals from the same place I do [/QUOTE]Are we going to go back to the old arguement that you have to be a 'believer' to be a moral person? [/QUOTE]Well a moral code is a set of beliefs, so it depends on your definition of 'believer'

[Timber Loftis]

Originally posted by MagiK: quote: Originally posted by Timber Loftis: So, the fact I take my morals from places other than the myth a Christian believes in does not detract from the value therein.

Or do you? You just said all your jurisprudence people were basing their laws on Christian faith, the foundation of the Christian Faith is the.....Duh, Duh Duh!!! BIBLE [img]smile.gif[/img] so you must get your morals from the same place I do [/QUOTE]Okay, Mr. "I Pick Nits" [img]graemlins/whackya.gif[/img] Let me be more specific: I take the bible's philosophy in equivalence to others. I do not elevate it to "Truth" just because a religion is based on it. I also take the Tao Te Ching into account, as well as the Art of War. All of these philosophical works get put into the mix. Growing up Baptist, it's not like I can avoid Christian thinking. But, realizing its place among all other works is key for me.

[Rokenn]

Originally posted by Yorick:Well a moral code is a set of beliefs, so it depends on your definition of 'believer' [/QB]

To be more specific, the old arguement that athiest can not be moral.

Originally posted by Rokenn: Are we going to go back to the old arguement that you have to be a 'believer' to be a moral person?

Nope, I was just having a little nit picking fun with Timber [img]smile.gif[/img]

Originally posted by Rokenn: quote: Originally posted by Yorick:Well a moral code is a set of beliefs, so it depends on your definition of 'believer'

To be more specific, the old arguement that athiest can not be moral. [/QB][/QUOTE]
oh boy here we gooo again............................hehehehe [img]smile.gif[/img]

[Rokenn]

Originally posted by MagiK: quote: Originally posted by Rokenn: quote: Originally posted by Yorick:Well a moral code is a set of beliefs, so it depends on your definition of 'believer'

To be more specific, the old arguement that athiest can not be moral. [/QUOTE]
oh boy here we gooo again............................hehehehe [img]smile.gif[/img]
[/QB][/QUOTE]My point exactly [img]tongue.gif[/img]

[Cerek the Barbaric]

Originally posted by Timber Loftis: Cerek, all respects but I don't think "self-empowerment" and God are mutually exclusive. I certainly think God helps those who help themselves. Self-empowerment is about a certain responsibility for your actions. It's about not whining when you're down and doing something about it. It doesn't mean you have to go to the "might makes right" extreme. But, I certainly don't think God would want us all to hang out on porches with our 40's lamenting our problems to him and doing nothing proactive about them ourselves. Trust in God mustn't extend to a decrease in self-reliance and taking responsibility.

You're right Timber. I didn't word my previous post very well. God DOES expect us to take responsibility for our actions. He also expects us to exercise our own judgement in most "day-to-day" decisions. Our decisions should be based on Biblical principles, but we aren't supposed to ask God to make every single decision for us.

Our pastor once told a good joke that illustrates how God expects us to use our common sense.

A town had received a lot of rain, causing the local river to flood. A man was trapped on the roof of his house when rescuers came by in a canoe. They offered to take him to safety but the man refused. "God will save me", he said. No amount of coaxing could convince the guy to get in, so the rescuers continued on their way. A little later, the water had risen much higher, leaving the man only one small spot to stand on. Another boat approached and again, the man refused to get in. "God will save me", he said. The water continued to rise until it was up to the man's chest. A helicopter flew over and lowered a rope ladder to the man, but he waved them off. "God will save me", he said. The water eventually rose over the mans' head and he drowned.

When he arrived at the Pearly Gates, he was understandably upset and demanded an audience with God immediately. God appeared at the gate and asked what the man wanted. "What do I want?" he asked increduously. "I want to know why I'm here. I had faith in you. I was POSITIVE you would save me, but you let me drown instead. Why didn't you save me from drowning?"

God said "I sent you two boats and a helicopter, what more did you want me to do?"

When I said self-empowerment and Christianity were mutuall exclusive, I was speaking primarily about those who say "If it's to be, it's up to me". While this is true to a certain extent, I also believe there are some situations where God wants us to let Him take control and guide our lives. For a Christian, it would be more appropriate to say "If it's to be, it's up to God..and me". I was taking "self-empowerment" to it's own extreme, where a person believes they are the ONLY authority with any control over what happens to them. Naturally, Christians believe that it is God who has the final and ultimate authority over our lives. That is why I said the two were contradictory.

[Chewbacca]

Ah, the Satanism discussion again.

A principle tenet of the philosophy of Satanism or PE is personal responsibility for your actions.

Forgiveness can be an act of personal responsibility and it can also be quite powerful as well as enpowering.

It's an individual path for people who want individual responsibility for their own destiny. It is about not blaming other people for mistakes and shortcoming but accepting them. If this isn't a noble moral or ethical code I dont know what is.

I disagree that this path is mutually exclusive to any other, in particular Christianity. My personal beliefs and practice includes the tenets of both.