Moral question - mainly for Christians

[Moiraine]

Well Leonis, though being an agnostic, I face a dilemna akin to yours. I am a computer engineer. And I disagree, more and more so, with the system of western world companies in general - both in their objectives (more and more growth) and their means to achieve it. For one, it seems to me that if we keep on running faster and faster to more and more growth, then we are running right into the wall. Both ecologically (for we are taxing more and more the only world we have) and humanitarily (for we leave behind all the people that can't follow the pace, both in other countries and in our own).

You have only to look at the vocabulary we use. It is a vocabulary of war. We 'attack' markets. But if we 'win' a market, isn't it at the expense of other humans ? We are aven eager to create false needs - so we can fulfill them.

And the struggle for power inside a company itself is, alas, much more based on how well you comply with the company 'philosophy' than on a person's competence ...

I am seriously considering leaving my job, to study to learn other competences so I can do something really useful for the world - like teaching, or using my current competences to work for humanitarian causes. But having no paid job for several years would clash with another strong belief of mine - that it is wrong for a woman not to be able to earn her own bread by herself (even if my husband is perfectly willing to support me on my choices).

So you see, I cannot really give any advice to you - though it seems to me that Yorick answered your question quite well. [img]smile.gif[/img]

[Cloudbringer]

Leonis, I'm a Christian, as you know and I think you're doing well, considering all the things in this world that you could be doing, yet you are working in an honest job, supporting yourself and family, doing what you find interesting. You aren't wearing a placard advertising the gambling portion of the casino's business and you aren't advocating gambling, obviously.

I have problems with anything that harms a person or ruins families, but I don't see (neither does my priest) anything wrong with a lottery or raffle etc and they are considered forms of gambling. I DO think that institutions like casinos should be made to support counseling for those with severe gambling addictions, though. Even alcohol companies here in the states will promote their products with ads that say 'use our product wisely, don't drink and drive" etc. Seems to me it's a matter of common sense for them- helps to do away with one of the reasons people dislike them and at the same time, at least from my point of view it could do some help, but then I'm rambling here, so forgive me. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Long and short of it is, how do you feel? Do you feel right with God and yourself? Do you feel it's time to move on? If you feel right, then stay and if not, start looking for something else. God opens doors when we least expect it. [img]smile.gif[/img]

[johnny]

Don't make life so complicated, it's just a job, and as you said, one that pays well. Your beliefs don't bring food on the table, your job does.

[Cloudbringer]

Originally posted by johnny: Don't make life so complicated, it's just a job, and as you said, one that pays well. Your beliefs don't bring food on the table, your job does.

All well and good, Johnny, but one has to live with ones principles, beliefs, conscience and decisions every day. If you are fundamentally opposed to prostitution, do you take a job as a receptionist in the whorehouse because it pays well and 'puts food on the table'? Of course not!

Leonis' situation isn't quite that black and white, of course, or he wouldn't be asking other Christians what they think about his choices or worrying about it at all, he'd be able to say 'NO, I won't do that' or 'sure, it's not an issue'. I'd say most people have things they would or wouldn't do for any price and Leonis is struggling with moral and religious precepts that he thinks matter to his peace of mind as a Christian.

IMO he's not 'making life so complicated'. Life IS sometimes complicated and he's trying to sort out what he believes versus how life is complicating his existence at the moment. [img]smile.gif[/img]

I hope you find peace with whatever choice you make, Leonis, but I truly believe you aren't being hypocritical if you don't hide your views when asked and you don't actively participate or encourage people to gamble. It's a fine line, I know and I would probably waffle back and forth alot if I was in that situation. [img]smile.gif[/img]

[ 01-28-2003, 01:47 PM: Message edited by: Cloudbringer ]

[Rokenn]

I'm not a christain, but just wanted to drop in my 2 cents. Personally I could not do a job that violated my personal ethics or morals. Case in point:
At one job I was the budget analysis for my department. My boss asked me to fudge the numbers to help him with budget talks with the other department heads. I refused and went back to being a computer analyst. In the end you have to live with your choices. Personally I am happy with mine.

[John D Harris]

Leonis,
I think you're seeing it right, you are in this world but not of it. Christ says render unto Ceasar what is Ceasar's and God what is God's, I know he was speaking specificly about taxes but the principl(sp?) is the same when applied to anything else. Paul writes (paraphased by me) "Who ever you work for, work for them as if you were working for God". In the T-shirt screenprinting business lots of my customers Bars and strip clubs (Nudie Joints for the rednecks) If they come to me to design a shirt I give them the best design I can, anything less would not be working for them as if I was working for God.

[Attalus]

Leonis, I do think that Cerek has a good point about praying over it and letting the Holy Spirit guide you. The Bible tells us of eating food that had been offered to false gods. Obviously the people who ate of it had qualms similar to yours, but in the end they were allowed to not waste perfectly good food.

[Leonis]

Absolutely fantasic replys everyone! Thank you so much. I've been waiting for a chunk of time to be able to reply back.

Firstly, how silly of me to *almost* miss out on the non-Christian perspectives. As I was posting, I guess I was looking for a biblical view, but reading all the replys shows me it is an issue everyone faces in different ways. Thanks for not being put off by my framing of the question and for your invaluable input.

Lavi, I believe that a Christian by nature, does not go to hell. (Long debate on this potential 'powder keg' could be held elsewhere, or headed off by saying I don't think that gives me any excuses. )

Mel, thanks! Slapped myself when I read that. Cheers.

Sir Krustin, cormack, Vaskez - thanks! Taken to heart.

/)eathKiller, these type of posts of yours amaze me. It's like you switch to a different persona occasionally. No offence intended by that. I agree with parts and disagree with other parts of what you said. Thanks [img]smile.gif[/img] (Found the layout a little hard to comprehend though)

Cerek, Yorick, Wolfgir, Moiraine, Cloudbringer, Rokenn, John D and Attalus - inspiring and thoughtfull words. Thank you.
I'm often blown away be the intelligence and concern people display here. I have been given much food for thought.

I have posted previously about leaving a job I had (and alerting authorities) because of moral, ethical and legal objections I had to their practices. I have no qualms about doing this, so therefore with the current one, I do feel comfortable with my decision.
I also realise that we can deceive ourselves, and wanted to make sure I'm not doing that - take myself out of the comfort zone and see if I can stand up to it. I feel it is good to constantly challenge one's own convictions - apply some heat.

I also wondered if I'd thought it through enough, or had just looked at the money and gone "yep, that'll do". This is being really helpfull, thank you.

Yorick outlined many of my concerns with gambling as an entity. It may not be condemned per se, in the Bible, but neither is driving home drunk and killing someone on the way.
Gambling, drinking, driving may all be ok in isolation, but the effects they have under certain conditions, on certain people, can be devestating.

I have found out though, that due to the very tough state laws on gambling, the opertaion is very legit. There is no deception coming from the casino. Everyone who walks in there knows that if you walk out with more money than you came in with, you are fortunate, and in the minority.

The way things are set up now makes it hard to rip people off without them knowing - something I would have an issue with if it were the case.

Anyway, I'm loving my job. And I'm appreciating the thought provoking wealth of insight that has been contributed. Thanks again.

[Yorick]

Originally posted by johnny: Don't make life so complicated, it's just a job, and as you said, one that pays well. Your beliefs don't bring food on the table, your job does.

What if you don't believe in work? What if you don't have a work ethic?

Your beliefs are central to you. You have them even if you are unaware of what they are.

[Leonis]

I believe I'm going to work tomorrow.