Oi!

[Leonis]

Originally posted by Epona: Good question mate, yes there are plenty of non-racist non-fascist 'Oi' bands but I couldn't tell you their names (avoid Screwdriver like the plague, they are BNP supporters). But I have to say that proper skins (ie. smartly dressed crombie/smart boots/braces etc. rather than bomber-jacket and swastika tattooes) are into Jamaican ska and skinhead reggae, not that Oi stuff so Oi does tend to cater for the bonehead skin element.

Thanks Epona. What defines skinhead reggae as opposed to reggae. Does it reefer to bands like Madness and The Specials or are they more English Ska?

[Ronn_Bman]

Call me ignorant, but what is "Oi"?

[Epona]

Originally posted by Leonis: Thanks Epona. What defines skinhead reggae as opposed to reggae. Does it reefer to bands like Madness and The Specials or are they more English Ska?

Skinhead reggae is a kind of pre-reggae thing. A bit closer to ska/rocksteady sound than to Bob Marley. Dates from the original skinhead era around 1967-72ish.

So no, not Madness & The Specials, I'd classify that as 2-tone ska (British revival, late 70s early 80s) . That's much more uptempo and has a punk influence, although did also take some influences from skinhead reggae, and some bands did covers of songs from that era.

As always in music, there is much confusion and crossover between genres, I'll try to summarise it (dates given are for the 'heyday' of the genre):

Ska. 1960-66, developed from Jamaican R&B with some Mento influences, especially in the use of traditional lyrics. Uptempo beat, with a heavy horn/guitar emphasis on the offbeat, trombone/trumpet/sax very prominent. Often makes use of rhythmic repeated vocalisations such as 'higgit', 'uh', 'chkachka' etc.
Eg. The Skatalites - Guns Of Navarone; Baba Brooks - Watermelon Man; Desmond Dekker - King Of Ska

Rocksteady. 1966-1968, similar to ska but with a slower tempo and a more relaxed less emphasised beat, lacks the rhythmic vocalisations associated with ska.
Eg. Desmond Dekker - Israelites, 007 (Shanty Town)

Skinhead Reggae. 1967-1972. Slower than Ska, less emphasis on the offbeats, still sometimes uses horns (which are rarer still in 'true' reggae) but more often organs.
Eg. Harry J Allstars - Liquidator; Dave & Ansel Collins - Double Barrell; Symarip - Skinhead Moonstomp.

2-Tone. Late 70s-early 80s British ska revival. Very uptempo, can be slightly punky, but very true to its ska roots.
Eg. Early Madness, The Specials, The Selecter, Bad Manners

Oi. Late 70s. Nothing to do with ska whatsoever, but a type of punk. The term 'Oi' was coined by Gary Bushell which should be warning enough. New kinds of skinheads, nothing to do with the originals, gravitated towards this music and it became politically polarised with many of the right-wing bands openly supporting the NF and singing racist and anti-Irish lyrics. Obviously skinheads who were into that sort of thing would not be welcome in any ska 'circles', since the original British skins embraced Jamaican culture wholeheartedly.

[ 12-16-2002, 11:48 AM: Message edited by: Epona ]

[LordKathen]

A bit comercial, but what about NOFX, or Rancid? Same taste without the crap.

[RevRuby]

i never realized the word "oi" had such negative connotations. i use it to say hi on my messengers, i'm anti racist. so wierd, i won't change my habit tho. i love commercial and non-commercial punk and today's "ska" i try to stay away fromt hings i find with objectionable lyrics as i ahve a habit of getting them stuck in my head and singing them out loud. how embarassing if i have something i don;t believe in stuck there and i sing in front of the wrong ppl.

[Yorick]

Originally posted by RevRuby: i never realized the word "oi" had such negative connotations. i use it to say hi on my messengers, i'm anti racist. so wierd, i won't change my habit tho. i love commercial and non-commercial punk and today's "ska" i try to stay away fromt hings i find with objectionable lyrics as i ahve a habit of getting them stuck in my head and singing them out loud. how embarassing if i have something i don;t believe in stuck there and i sing in front of the wrong ppl.

Oi as a word is harmless greeting.

Or an angry shout.

Oi as a musical term is a different thing.

Just like pop, rock, metal, and house are all words and music styles with no relation to those words.

[Leonis]

Originally posted by Epona: quote: Originally posted by Leonis: Thanks Epona. What defines skinhead reggae as opposed to reggae. Does it reefer to bands like Madness and The Specials or are they more English Ska?

Skinhead reggae is a kind of pre-reggae thing. A bit closer to ska/rocksteady sound than to Bob Marley. Dates from the original skinhead era around 1967-72ish.

So no, not Madness & The Specials, I'd classify that as 2-tone ska (British revival, late 70s early 80s) . That's much more uptempo and has a punk influence, although did also take some influences from skinhead reggae, and some bands did covers of songs from that era.

As always in music, there is much confusion and crossover between genres, I'll try to summarise it (dates given are for the 'heyday' of the genre):

Ska. 1960-66, developed from Jamaican R&B with some Mento influences, especially in the use of traditional lyrics. Uptempo beat, with a heavy horn/guitar emphasis on the offbeat, trombone/trumpet/sax very prominent. Often makes use of rhythmic repeated vocalisations such as 'higgit', 'uh', 'chkachka' etc.
Eg. The Skatalites - Guns Of Navarone; Baba Brooks - Watermelon Man; Desmond Dekker - King Of Ska

Rocksteady. 1966-1968, similar to ska but with a slower tempo and a more relaxed less emphasised beat, lacks the rhythmic vocalisations associated with ska.
Eg. Desmond Dekker - Israelites, 007 (Shanty Town)

Skinhead Reggae. 1967-1972. Slower than Ska, less emphasis on the offbeats, still sometimes uses horns (which are rarer still in 'true' reggae) but more often organs.
Eg. Harry J Allstars - Liquidator; Dave & Ansel Collins - Double Barrell; Symarip - Skinhead Moonstomp.

2-Tone. Late 70s-early 80s British ska revival. Very uptempo, can be slightly punky, but very true to its ska roots.
Eg. Early Madness, The Specials, The Selecter, Bad Manners

Oi. Late 70s. Nothing to do with ska whatsoever, but a type of punk. The term 'Oi' was coined by Gary Bushell which should be warning enough. New kinds of skinheads, nothing to do with the originals, gravitated towards this music and it became politically polarised with many of the right-wing bands openly supporting the NF and singing racist and anti-Irish lyrics. Obviously skinheads who were into that sort of thing would not be welcome in any ska 'circles', since the original British skins embraced Jamaican culture wholeheartedly.[/QUOTE]Thanks for this! I have a heap of Bob Marley/Peter Tosh stuff and some of the newer hybrid such as Fishbone etc.. Haven't gone deep into the roots though, but I think I must. I heard some Desmond Dekker recently which I really like and have mixed several live reggae bands here who played about 5 songs I knew and about 40 I didn't (but REALLY liked).

I'm interested to know where I should start looking for the stuff they were playing, but I don't know any names of artists or songs. The bulk of what they were doing sounded like 'speed reggae' - different to most ska I've heard - really fast driving bass lines.
I'm going to check out the names you have here though.

My interest in Oi goes back to an Aussie film called Romper Stomper
It's essentially an anti neo-nazi movie (though many critics had trouble seeing the point) and the director wished to display the true uglyness and brutality of Aussie neo-nazis and other violent gangs. This included the music they listen to. His dillema was accurately showing the Oi music could mean paying royalties to neo-nazis - so he got a session band to write and record some Oi tracks specifically for the movie

Geoffrey Wright, Director: Regarding this soundtrack: Part of this extraordinary and award winning film score includes examples of that obscure musical genre known as 'Oi'. They have been placed here, with their racist lyrics intact, in the context of the other compositions constituting Romper Stomper's aural heart of darkness. It would be desirable to ask the listener to accept the Oi songs in the same way as they'd accept a grisly item in a museum. Unfortunately however, the hatred and despair that generated the original modes is not a relic of history but a part of the here and now. Taken from the score's album notes (Label: Picture This/Mushroom Distribution Services)

There's something I like about the intensity and rawness of the genre, but strongly dissagree with the lyrical bent of what I've heard. However, perhaps it is the very nature of the ideals which brings about that intensity...
You said there are some around though, so I'll keep looking.
Thanks again.

[Epona]

Leonis, I've not actually seen Romper Stomper (that's not to say I wouldn't watch it tho) so I can't comment on it.

Similarly I don't know much Oi, but I do like Sham 69 who apparently are an Oi band and I know they're not racist (they played Rock Against Racism gigs in the late 70s), I don't know enough about Oi or Punk to be able to tell the difference. Other non-racist Oi bands I have found out are The Business and The Angelic Upstarts, I don't know much about them. These bands all pre-dated the NF slant of the genre.

Now, if you like reggae, and the 3rd wave ska like Fishbone, I'm convinced you will LOVE the original ska! There is very very little available to listen to on the internet (I like to listen to a couple of tracks to see if I like something before I buy it!), in fact I've not had any luck tracing down tracks for you to sample. BUT You can get some great box sets from Amazon and they're not expensive.

I particularly recommend:
Rough & Tough: The Story Of Ska 1960-1966. (2 CDs)
This is a fantastic 52 track compilation, in chronological order which allows you to get a feel for the development of the genre. It starts off with some 1960 Jamaican R&B from Laurel Aitken, heads through the Ska years with artists such as The Skatalites, Derrick Morgan, Owen Gray, Jimmy Cliff, Stranger Cole, Desmond Dekker, Baba Brooks, Lord Tanamo, Justin Hinds & The Dominoes, The Techniques, Lee Perry, and many more. It ends with some Rocksteady from Delroy Wilson, and Desmond Dekker.

Other really good compilations:
And This Is A Ska Explosion (1 CD)
Trojan Ska I (3 CDs)
Trojan Ska II (3 CDs)
Deep Ska (4 CDs)

Alas you won't find on these many tracks by the man who in my opinion produced the best Ska going - Prince Buster. (There is one on the Ska Explosion CD but not his best IMO). If you find you like Ska, he is definitely worth a listen.

Actually I have an idea, I think I left some tracks copied on the HDD of my dad's PC, if you want to try before you buy I can e-mail you a couple over Christmas, see if you like it before you spend your hard-earned.

EDIT: To add that I only put copies on my dad's PC cos I was burning compilations of my favourite tracks for my own use on my personal CD player, not pirating anything! I don't object to sending you a couple of tracks on the basis of see if you like it before you go buying anything, not to breach copyright or anything nefarious like that. [img]smile.gif[/img]

[ 12-16-2002, 07:02 PM: Message edited by: Epona ]

[Epona]

Originally posted by RevRuby: i never realized the word "oi" had such negative connotations. i use it to say hi on my messengers, i'm anti racist. so wierd, i won't change my habit tho. i love commercial and non-commercial punk and today's "ska" i try to stay away fromt hings i find with objectionable lyrics as i ahve a habit of getting them stuck in my head and singing them out loud. how embarassing if i have something i don;t believe in stuck there and i sing in front of the wrong ppl.

RevRuby, Oi is not at all objectionable as a word (I use it a lot too!), and as I said before not all Oi music is racist, but it has *much* more than its share of downright nasty objectionable stuff compared to other genres.

If you want to try out some original ska (which doesn't have any really nasty aspects LOL) have a look at the compilation CDs I listed in my reply to Leonis.

[Yorick]

Originally posted by Epona: Leonis, I've not actually seen Romper Stomper (that's not to say I wouldn't watch it tho) so I can't comment on it.

YOU

HAVE

GOT

TO

SEE

ROMPER STOMPER.

Russel Crow is sensational. Done before he was a big star.