Son of a God of Murder, Paladins, and Lawful Good

[Maxamus]

My Lone Sorcerer needed soem Cleric Support, why not Drow?

Vic rules, escpeccially romancing with her. I just got past the first part of beign her Ideal man, Now I gotta wait for the Insult throwing and finally the good stuff.

By the way, is it possible to go to Suddenlesser with a Drow?

[Sazerac]

Originally posted by Dundee Slaytern: Might want to consider editing your post, robohobodude. No need to replace the word, just use asterisks. Got to remember, while this is not a kiddy forum, it is a family forum.

Thank you, Dundee Slaytern. Robohobodude, please do keep your language to within PG-13 specs. I've edited the offending word for you...please do so yourself in future.

-Sazerac

[Dundee Slaytern]

Just my $0.02 on Paladins.

Yes, they are Lawful Good. However, I like to think they are LG by following Torm's Law, and are not bounded by societies' law. That does not mean they are lawless however; since if the societies' laws are not flawed, then there will be no problem.

There is a fine thin line between blind obedience and rightful duty.

Even during the Paladin Stronghold's quests, this is pointed out when you are asked to mediate between the Lord and the farmers. Your Paladin technically 'disobeyed' orders by not following the Lord's orders, but does the Order reprimand you? Nay, they praised you for uncovering the Lord's wrongful plans.

Sure, it is entirely plausible that the Order will have initial doubts when you bring Viconia into your party; but surely it is a Paladin's duty to rehabilitate people as well? After all, it is not as though Viconia was charging towards you with Mace raised. Nay my friend, she was tied to a stake. Tied to a stake for the sole reason that she is a Drow. People fear what they do not know or understand, and the fact that she comes from an infamous race did not help. This does not mean that she should be condemned though. I mean, there are good Drow in the world, Drizzt being the most famous of them.

Unless you are roleplaying an Inquisitor( which Keldorn incidentally happens to be one), there is no real reason for you to deem her guilty before a trial. The path will not be easy, the path will be long, but slowly but surely, you can teach Viconia to reform her ways. This is rewarded in ToB when you finally change her alignment.

Paladins should give her a chance first, as they are meant to be fair, not radicals or fanatics, unless like I said, you are roleplaying an Inquisitor.

If you do not know the significance of Inquisitors, go to Google and search up on the Spanish Inquisition.

[Tanoch Thas'ala]

My Cavalier had no problem rescuing Viconia, twice. once at the stake and after getting Vampirised.

I think he made the right decision, becuase ultimately she will change alignment based on your actions toward her. Isn't that a good thing?

[Maxamus]

Depends.

My evil party (one guy) as no intention of changing her alignment.

I likey me pretties dark, powerful, and evil, hehehehehehehe

[Sazerac]

Originally posted by Dundee Slaytern: Just my $0.02 on Paladins. Yes, they are Lawful Good. However, I like to think they are LG by following Torm's Law, and are not bounded by societies' law. That does not mean they are lawless however; since if the societies' laws are not flawed, then there will be no problem. There is a fine thin line between blind obedience and rightful duty.

Personally, I would think that "blind obedience" would be more along the lines of Lawful Neutral, whereas Right Action (rightful duty) would be Lawful Good.

Sure, it is entirely plausible that the Order will have initial doubts when you bring Viconia into your party; but surely it is a Paladin's duty to rehabilitate people as well? After all, it is not as though Viconia was charging towards you with Mace raised. Nay my friend, she was tied to a stake. Tied to a stake for the sole reason that she is a Drow. People fear what they do not know or understand, and the fact that she comes from an infamous race did not help. This does not mean that she should be condemned though. I mean, there are good Drow in the world, Drizzt being the most famous of them.

I agree, and rescuing Viconia is "right action." From what I understand, Beshaba isn't a very nice goddess either and those followers are rabid fanatics. I also know that Viconia is rehabilitable, but it takes ToB to work that out. Strictly by the rules of the road, I would think it would be rather difficult for a Paladin to accept a NE drow into his/her party, although it's definitely within LG standards to have rescued her.

Unless you are roleplaying an Inquisitor( which Keldorn incidentally happens to be one), there is no real reason for you to deem her guilty before a trial. The path will not be easy, the path will be long, but slowly but surely, you can teach Viconia to reform her ways. This is rewarded in ToB when you finally change her alignment. Paladins should give her a chance first, as they are meant to be fair, not radicals or fanatics, unless like I said, you are roleplaying an Inquisitor. If you do not know the significance of Inquisitors, go to Google and search up on the Spanish Inquisition.

Well...ahem, the Spanish Inquisition, I think most people would agree, was the perfect example of a Lawful Evil organization, like the Cowled Wizards. "Inquisitors" in the Forgotten Realms sense would be more like Enforcers of Torm's Law, but definitely Lawful Good. A wise Inquisitor would be like an ultimate judge...looking for the Truth rather than pronouncing their already pat decision based on their own agendas. Think of the Prelate who judges Anomen at the Radiant Heart...that would be the ultimate example of a good Inquisitor.

(BTW, the Spanish Inquisition was like the first Holocaust, as it was largely targeted at ridding Europe of the Jews; it was ultimately Anti-Semitic.)

Cheers,
-Sazerac

[Xero279]

Originally posted by Maxamus: By the way, is it possible to go to Suddenlesser with a Drow?

yes, but the elves make her swear her obiedence to you

[drewal]

MINOR SPOILER

Picture the two undercover cops in the movie Traffic. They would - from what is shown of them in the movie - qualify as lawful good. Yet the lie to the drug dealer during the sting.

As for taking Viconia in...

I disagree Sazerac. Depending on temperament, a LG Paladin might very well take Viconia in and attempt to save her from the evil of her ways (which dovetails nicely with the arc of the Viconia story)

[Morgeruat]

If you read the Paladin description in the players handbook, 1st or second edition, as you said you have, they cannot have evil henchmen and neutrals are taken only so long as they "behave themselves" their preferable company would be other like-minded charcters, ie lawful good, neutral good is close enough for them to work well together. So he would free Viconia from the mob, but he wouldn't travel with her, but he couldn't kill her unless she did something evil which he had proof of, and then she would be brought to trial, not mob justice, or the paladin's blade as an excuse.

Paladins work on their own personal code of honor, which is usually placed secondary to their churches/government's in the case of a noble, normally the two are in agreement, however when they are not the paladin may be forced to become an expatriot, he forsakes the organization that has become corrupt from his personal beliefs, ie if he was a baron in Amn, and his duties to the state forced him to do something against his vows he would not do them.

If one of societies laws are evil, then they don't follow them, such as in the drow city where worship of Lolth(human spelling, not drowish) is mandated and those who don't are killed, or exiled.

[ 06-19-2002, 11:46 AM: Message edited by: Morgeruat ]

[daan]

well, .. he is playing the LG paladin, so whatever his LG paladin is doing is what that LG paladin would be doing in such a situation, heh, makes sense

If you follow the ADnD-rules, or scripts from books or something, that would tend to get a bit boring i think, there is no way you could write down every special exception and such.

I personally think, rescuing and taking viconia in the party... while you're not allowed, makes it more interesting. Disobey orders because you know its the right thing .. although most other paladins interpret the law diferently ... have a very harsh life, and be happy when you finally do manage to change her alignment.
Put personal code in front of the church i guess

You cant follow the law, or a god's law for that matter, to the letter ... else all christians would eb hunting snakes and such now..

[img]smile.gif[/img] Just my €0.02 [img]smile.gif[/img]

P.s. Im a lowlife powergamer, so if this doesnt make sense .. hey, i tried