Very Good Article on MS Palladium

[andrewas]

Originally posted by Wurm: Neb I am a full supporter of a MS led world, if it wasn't for MS we wouldn't be writing to each other across thousand of miles or enjoying the many games that we do. But if you think I trust MS... well then I have some land near Live Oak Florida to sell you [img]tongue.gif[/img]

Bah, the various internet consortiums could have done a better job if M$ didnt want so much of it to be set up there way. Just look at the Javascript mess. Was supposed to be a standard that would work on *any* browser. Any raw-coder will tell you how well that worked.

But they did good with DirectX, nothing that coudnt have been done by the hardware manufacturers themselves, but unfortunately it took M$ to force the issue. Its the single best feature in windows.

But having this kind of power over what someone can run, thats scary. "Oh, he hasnt paid us this month, lets shut him down" Sounds far-fetched? This technology is well capable of that. Hell, if they put in the effort "They are competing with us, lets shut them down" is a long way from impossible.

To beat it will require mod-chips and even then it would need significant resources to get the decryption keys to use. I dont think any of the big Warez groups have the resources, and if they join up they just get busted.

[andrewas]

Originally posted by Neb: So therefore it's more profitable for him and his products to be reliable, legal and nice.

Neb, sad to say, but there is no way ever that M$ can be got rid of. Look at the average company network. You have various M$ office documents - a pain to convert, but not impossible. Then you have your applications, often costing thousands. Assuming you can find non-M$ equivalents for them all, you still have a substantial re-train cost to pay.

Then theres the server software. Many of the products in the M$ Backoffice range simply do not have a non-M$ equivalent, and those that do tend to lack the integration of M$ versions. Makes your system a whole lot less efficient, and you have a large set-up time, test time, re-train for the IT department who have to maintain it.

And then you have your operating systems. You have any idea how long it takes to rip windows off of 100 PCs (small company network, many run to tens of thousands), install a *NIX, install (and maybe compile) all the applications, test them, and get the operators up to speed.

And even after you do all this - assuming the company hasnt gone bankrupt - you stil have M$ office documents coming in through emails (And there are *no* reliable converters, you cannot convert back and forth as a part of your routine).

No, M$ dont have to treat its customers right to keep them. They just have to keep hurting the competition so it can never compete.

[Vaskez]

Originally posted by andrewas: quote: Originally posted by Wurm: Neb I am a full supporter of a MS led world, if it wasn't for MS we wouldn't be writing to each other across thousand of miles or enjoying the many games that we do. But if you think I trust MS... well then I have some land near Live Oak Florida to sell you [img]tongue.gif[/img]

Bah, the various internet consortiums could have done a better job if M$ didnt want so much of it to be set up there way. Just look at the Javascript mess. Was supposed to be a standard that would work on *any* browser. Any raw-coder will tell you how well that worked.

But they did good with DirectX, nothing that coudnt have been done by the hardware manufacturers themselves, but unfortunately it took M$ to force the issue. Its the single best feature in windows.

But having this kind of power over what someone can run, thats scary. "Oh, he hasnt paid us this month, lets shut him down" Sounds far-fetched? This technology is well capable of that. Hell, if they put in the effort "They are competing with us, lets shut them down" is a long way from impossible.

To beat it will require mod-chips and even then it would need significant resources to get the decryption keys to use. I dont think any of the big Warez groups have the resources, and if they join up they just get busted.[/QUOTE]True and also, as soon as one version of Palladium is cracked, an update will be released. Your computer will automatically connect to the MS server and update to the new version and all new software will only run with the new version. Then the cracking will have to start again.

Will Linux go along with this new movement? We could see Linux become much much more popular and we don't necessarily need to upgrade from P4's and the current brand of AMD chips for quite a while.

Originally posted by andrewas: Neb, sad to say, but there is no way ever that M$ can be got rid of. Look at the average company network. You have various M$ office documents - a pain to convert, but not impossible. Then you have your applications, often costing thousands. Assuming you can find non-M$ equivalents for them all, you still have a substantial re-train cost to pay. My company is on the verge of doing just that. We have managed to get Linux running everything that used to be MS controlled and with just a few wrinkles left to iron out we could be M$ free within 18 months...but more likely 36 due to budgeting issues.

[Vaskez]

Originally posted by MagiK: Will Linux go along with this new movement? We could see Linux become much much more popular and we don't necessarily need to upgrade from P4's and the current brand of AMD chips for quite a while.

If the makers of Linux have any sense at all, they won't. They should realise that this could give them the boost they need to become as popular as windows, at least among consumers. Hopefully, software developers would realise that there's a market out there for non-Palladium applications and start developing more for Linux etc.

[ 11-07-2002, 03:50 PM: Message edited by: Vaskez ]

[Vaskez]

Originally posted by MagiK: quote: Originally posted by andrewas: Neb, sad to say, but there is no way ever that M$ can be got rid of. Look at the average company network. You have various M$ office documents - a pain to convert, but not impossible. Then you have your applications, often costing thousands. Assuming you can find non-M$ equivalents for them all, you still have a substantial re-train cost to pay. My company is on the verge of doing just that. We have managed to get Linux running everything that used to be MS controlled and with just a few wrinkles left to iron out we could be M$ free within 18 months...but more likely 36 due to budgeting issues.

[/QUOTE]Good luck! I'd be interested to hear how you get on!

[andrewas]

Originally posted by MagiK: quote: Originally posted by andrewas: Neb, sad to say, but there is no way ever that M$ can be got rid of. Look at the average company network. You have various M$ office documents - a pain to convert, but not impossible. Then you have your applications, often costing thousands. Assuming you can find non-M$ equivalents for them all, you still have a substantial re-train cost to pay. My company is on the verge of doing just that. We have managed to get Linux running everything that used to be MS controlled and with just a few wrinkles left to iron out we could be M$ free within 18 months...but more likely 36 due to budgeting issues.

[/QUOTE]Good luck with it. Hopefuly this will become easier in future as more applications get Linux versions, but there is still a long way to go. Ill also be interested in how that goes - I still think its not practical for most companies. If *love* to be proven wrong on this one though, I really would.

Originally posted by andrewas: quote: Originally posted by MagiK: quote: Originally posted by andrewas: Neb, sad to say, but there is no way ever that M$ can be got rid of. Look at the average company network. You have various M$ office documents - a pain to convert, but not impossible. Then you have your applications, often costing thousands. Assuming you can find non-M$ equivalents for them all, you still have a substantial re-train cost to pay. My company is on the verge of doing just that. We have managed to get Linux running everything that used to be MS controlled and with just a few wrinkles left to iron out we could be M$ free within 18 months...but more likely 36 due to budgeting issues.

[/QUOTE]Good luck with it. Hopefuly this will become easier in future as more applications get Linux versions, but there is still a long way to go. Ill also be interested in how that goes - I still think its not practical for most companies. If *love* to be proven wrong on this one though, I really would.[/QUOTE]While I am not actively involved with the project, I do keep tabs on it. Ill keep ya all posted [img]smile.gif[/img] Apparently they have all the desktop apps ported to non-MS products that will require minimal adjustment for users and that can read all current MS document formats. (I am not sure but I htink they are using the last free version of Star Office) The only thing they have yet to convert is the mail server....I think.

[Sir Krustin]

Originally posted by MagiK: Will Linux go along with this new movement? We could see Linux become much much more popular and we don't necessarily need to upgrade from P4's and the current brand of AMD chips for quite a while.

No, Linux will not follow such a step. Linux is opensource, and by definition you pick and choose the features you want. All one has to do is decline to compile in the security features and you have total control.

Frankly, I don't see hardware issues entering into it. This is an o/s issue, and I can't see how an extra feature in the hardware can force an o/s to deny access to specific data on your system, especially if that o/s is designed to ignore said security