The Logic Of Mercy Killing

[Sio]

Originally posted by Timber Loftis: Well, I've thrown at least one thread [img]graemlins/offtopic.gif[/img] a bit recently by noting that I am generally for the death of humans in whatever fashion until we get our cockroach-like rate of population growth under control. Plus, I married a PETA-freak, and we're vegetarians. So, I don't want to go too far into that portion of this thread. I will note two things. 1. It is my personal experience (with friend or relatives and their pets, farm animals, etc) that the majority of animals are euthenized not when they are in extreme pain but rather when they become extremely inconvenient to deal with. 2. Euthenizing humans in theory is fine - but in reality there's a problem. You see, if you *can* euthenize a person and there is a "right to die," then you are not too far removed from a situation where some elderly folks might think it's the best thing for their family for them to go ahead and remove themselves from the picture before they become too much of a burden. "The Practice" made this point a couple of years ago, and it struck me as very poignant. If I love my kids, why inconvenience them while I suffer in a hospital for 6 mos or a year? But, deep down, I may desire every last minute of breath I can get on this stinking planet. I see this as creating quite the problem.

Then

[Sio]

Originally posted by Sio: quote: Originally posted by Timber Loftis: Well, I've thrown at least one thread [img]graemlins/offtopic.gif[/img] a bit recently by noting that I am generally for the death of humans in whatever fashion until we get our cockroach-like rate of population growth under control. Plus, I married a PETA-freak, and we're vegetarians. So, I don't want to go too far into that portion of this thread. I will note two things. 1. It is my personal experience (with friend or relatives and their pets, farm animals, etc) that the majority of animals are euthenized not when they are in extreme pain but rather when they become extremely inconvenient to deal with. 2. Euthenizing humans in theory is fine - but in reality there's a problem. You see, if you *can* euthenize a person and there is a "right to die," then you are not too far removed from a situation where some elderly folks might think it's the best thing for their family for them to go ahead and remove themselves from the picture before they become too much of a burden. "The Practice" made this point a couple of years ago, and it struck me as very poignant. If I love my kids, why inconvenience them while I suffer in a hospital for 6 mos or a year? But, deep down, I may desire every last minute of breath I can get on this stinking planet. I see this as creating quite the problem.

Then[/QUOTE]Then I suppose that euthanizing if it becomes legal shall have to be done under strict rules and conditions that make sure that the person isnt just making a spur of the moment decision

Originally posted by Sio: I dont know why but ive always regarded an animals life above a humans, apart from only in cases concerning my family, after all nothing is more important that your family. But it seems that while humans are far superior and should be by ethics but above animals I cant help but think that animals innocence puts them above us, whereas we are so destructive and loathing, and jealousness of people better off than ourselves. I just put animals lives above peoples except as I said family, and friends. A little bit off-topic I know

I think maybe, that if you spent some real amounts of time living in a more rural environment, you may change your opinion. [img]smile.gif[/img] but that is just a guess.

While I think TL's mania towards human (cockroach like) population fears are way overstated (at least in the western hemisphere) I do think that as long as strict controls are in place to prevent abuse and coercion, I believe that euthanasia is acceptable in temrs of preventing inhumane continuation of life in cases of terminal illnesses.

I think I would enjoy listening to TL's wife talk for a while. I have yet to run into a PETA person who didn't start foaming at the mouth after a 10 minute exposure to me [img]smile.gif[/img] It is a very comical sight

[Timber Loftis]

Well, luckily PETA just got a crapload of $$$ from Linda McCartney, so they'll be around foaming at the mouth for quite a while, MagiK. Oh, and did I mention she is now an ex-PETA-freak. But, I think what someone once said to me about the Sierra Club rings true w/ animal rights activists like PETA: I'm glad they're around, because it makes me "the middle."

[Sio]

Originally posted by MagiK: quote: Originally posted by Sio: I dont know why but ive always regarded an animals life above a humans, apart from only in cases concerning my family, after all nothing is more important that your family. But it seems that while humans are far superior and should be by ethics but above animals I cant help but think that animals innocence puts them above us, whereas we are so destructive and loathing, and jealousness of people better off than ourselves. I just put animals lives above peoples except as I said family, and friends. A little bit off-topic I know

I think maybe, that if you spent some real amounts of time living in a more rural environment, you may change your opinion. [img]smile.gif[/img] but that is just a guess. [/QUOTE]I dont quite get you, can you explain please

Originally posted by Sio: I think maybe, that if you spent some real amounts of time living in a more rural environment, you may change your opinion. [img]smile.gif[/img] but that is just a guess.

I dont quite get you, can you explain please[/QB][/QUOTE]

Ok, umm, what I was trying to say, is that I frequently hear comments similar to what you expressed, from people who have not lived in and around the wilderness enough to really appreciate the differences between man and animal. Im not saying that you are worng mind you. I am just expressing somethign I have noticed. I grew up in Rural PA. I spent most of my free time as a child trudging in the woods, and when I was old enough hunting in those woods. I know that given a choice of living exclusivly with animals or exclusively with people, I would choose people. All of the kids who grew up near me, and went to school with me seem to have a much different perspective on wilderness and animals than do people I have met who have never really lived in that kind of environment. Hope that explains a bit of what I ment.

EDIT: By Woods Im talking State Game Lands and forests that stretch for 20-50 miles or more.

[ 11-04-2002, 12:05 PM: Message edited by: MagiK ]

[The Hunter of Jahanna]

I am all for euthanasia. If you want to die you should be allowed to choose how and when.It is my life and if I want to tie 2 rocks to my feet and jump into the Hudson the government has no buisness saving me or telling me I cant.

Originally posted by The Hunter of Jahanna: I am all for euthanasia. If you want to die you should be allowed to choose how and when.It is my life and if I want to tie 2 rocks to my feet and jump into the Hudson the government has no buisness saving me or telling me I cant.

You would be polluting the waterways and the EPA would have your hide! Errr litterally [img]smile.gif[/img] Not to mention some poor person would find you bobbing in the waves later and they would have to sue your survivors for the mental stress and anguish

Edit: Heck you aren't even allowed to pee in the Chesepeake unless you are a mile out from shore.

[ 11-04-2002, 12:18 PM: Message edited by: MagiK ]

[Charean]

Originally posted by Timber Loftis: Well, luckily PETA just got a crapload of $$$ from Linda McCartney, so they'll be around foaming at the mouth for quite a while, MagiK. Oh, and did I mention she is now an ex-PETA-freak. But, I think what someone once said to me about the Sierra Club rings true w/ animal rights activists like PETA: I'm glad they're around, because it makes me "the middle."

Thank goodness for being in the middle!!

I think Magik was talking about the food chain out in the wild. Although I would disagree, I like living amongst critters better than people, but I am not the most social of critters, myself.

I do think there should be provisions for people who know their own mind about dying, and they should be honored. I would rather have the plug pulled, or whatever done rather than lie about like a vegetable. I certainly wouldn't want to hang around if I were brain dead.
I watched my father die of cancer and it took a while. And a lot of kemo among other things. Dying that way has no appeal at all for me. I would rather go quick than suffer. (But then, my health is not the best anyway, but I am still functional at this point.)

It will get subjective as to what conditions would be right.
And Kevorkian's name will come up.
And the legalities.

Pheh! Too many details.