Zionism

[Charean]

Your post certainly explained a few things, and filled in a few gaps for me.

I feel badly for the Palestinians, though. They are in the same position as the Jews before 1948.

On NPR, they explained one reason there is such heated feelings over there is because from school they are taught that their enemies are literally incarnations of the devil. So to them, killing them is righteous.

I find the whole situation very sad.

[Timber Loftis]

MagiK, I was referring to the land Israel took in 1967, i.e. the occupied zones. Yes, the Ottoman Empire was divided up and that can't very well be undone now. But in 1967, Israel was playing by the rules I mentioned.

Originally posted by Timber Loftis: MagiK, I was referring to the land Israel took in 1967, i.e. the occupied zones. Yes, the Ottoman Empire was divided up and that can't very well be undone now. But in 1967, Israel was playing by the rules I mentioned.

True, and I have thought about it. BUT Due to the overt and very vocal announcements by various Arab groups it seems to me quite reasonable that they keep those lands to provide a buffer zone in which to slow the advances of enemies. The ISraelies do have a very real (as I documented) reason to fear these people, they are threatened with anihilation and extinction on a daily basis by the Arabs. Do they not have the right to ensure their own safety? or should they leave themselves wide open...if you look at any map you can see just how small an area they have to defend. I definately would want some room to work with if I had very very hostile neighbors.

Originally posted by Charean: Your post certainly explained a few things, and filled in a few gaps for me. I feel badly for the Palestinians, though. They are in the same position as the Jews before 1948. On NPR, they explained one reason there is such heated feelings over there is because from school they are taught that their enemies are literally incarnations of the devil. So to them, killing them is righteous. I find the whole situation very sad.

Oh without a doubt there is a massive barrage of propaganda thrown at the arab children, it would not be nearly so bad if it all didnt promote the extinction of a race. I mean, why not peaceful coexistance? I don't see any examples of Israel going on unprovoked conquests.

[Azred]

I don't even bother thinking about the Middle East situation anymore. Several decades of abandoned efforts and failed attempts to bring about peace has led me to the conclusion that the situation between the Israelis and the Palestinians will not be resolved until one side completely wipes out the other.
I truly wish that were not the case, but one must deal with reality as it is.

[Attalus]

Very interesting Magik. I already knew most of it from my general reading. I have stated here and elsewhere that I think that since the Israelis could destroy the Palestineans any day and don't conclusively proves their ethical superiority. I, like you, have not come up with a single good thing to say about the Arab war of extermination against Israel.

[True_Moose]

Originally posted by Attalus: Very interesting Magik. I already knew most of it from my general reading. I have stated here and elsewhere that I think that since the Israelis could destroy the Palestineans any day and don't conclusively proves their ethical superiority. I, like you, have not come up with a single good thing to say about the Arab war of extermination against Israel.

Or else they have a good sense of where an action like that would land them..

[The Hierophant]

One thing I could say is that the whole middle-eastern conflict goes way waaaaay back to pre-Roman times. That's how complex it is. Except in the days of the Roman Empire one of the really big trouble-making religious sects was that pesky little cult of the 'christ' (whoever the that was [img]smile.gif[/img] ). This whole Israel-Palestine debacle that has been raging on for the past 50 odd years (the blink of an eye in anthropological terms) is just the latest act in a greater play.
I don't think any singular group holds the 'moral highground' in the ongoing conflict in the region, mainly because morality differs so drastically from social system to social system. If we're taking things from a 20th century perspective then it can be said that the Israelis 'started it', but the PLO is equally 'guilty' of making sure the flames stay stoked up.

[Leonis]

Originally posted by Azred: I don't even bother thinking about the Middle East situation anymore. Several decades of abandoned efforts and failed attempts to bring about peace has led me to the conclusion that the situation between the Israelis and the Palestinians will not be resolved until one side completely wipes out the other. I truly wish that were not the case, but one must deal with reality as it is.

Interesting that the 'efforts' to broker peace have failed so consistently and so miserably isn't it?

*see several heated threads on US foreign policy for all manner of logical and hairbrained reasonings*

Interesting also that the Arabs and the Jews are decended from two brothers...

[John D Harris]

Originally posted by Leonis: Interesting also that the Arabs and the Jews are decended from two brothers...

You broke the code