France and Canada pea in Turkey's cereal

[Szass-Tam]

Originally posted by shamrock_uk: At least in my experience, the Brits hardly mention Empire in their schools.

But we don't actively deny past British atrocities.

[shamrock_uk]

True, but the fact that many (a majority?) of people don't even realise we committed any almost seems worse...

Originally posted by johnny: Yeah, they stopped killing Armenians, and focus on Kurds nowadays.

[img]graemlins/hehe.gif[/img]

[Aerich]

I've met a few cool Turks. They came to Canada on a university student exchange for a few months. We had some really interesting conversations.

Being the anal-retentive speller that I am, I'll point out that a French and Canadian legume in Turkish cereal is unusual but not offensive. Urine is a different matter. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

It is very true that many countries do not wish to admit their past mistakes/incredibly destructive policies. Turkey is certainly not alone.

[Morgeruat]

Originally posted by shamrock_uk: Within the EU however, especially with regards to Turkey joining, this issue often serves as a cover for the real reason for opposition - racial.

Change that to cultural and I think you'd have a far more accurate statement, is Turkey being asked to meet the same requirements for membership as other nations? (No death penalty, equal rights for women, and protection of minorities < religious, racial, cultural, etc>, are they a nation that could "fit in" with the EU?) Do they meet all the requirements expected of other EU nations without any qualifiers or exceptions?

If they do not then the fault is not racists at the EU beaurocracy, it is Turkey's inability to function at the same level as a non-muslim nation in the international arena. If they do then perhaps there might be merit to blaiming racism, but I doubt that is the case.

[Dundee Slaytern]

It is my opinion that it is wrong to tar all the citizens of Turkey with the same brush. I have a friend from Turkey, and he is about the nicest guy you could ever meet. He is a sketch artist and is currently studying overseas in an USA university before going back to Turkey.

I also know of a married couple in Singapore. The husband is from Turkey, and they opened a cafe in Singapore. Their hospitality was very pleasant.

My aunts have visited the country itself, and they enjoyed their trip very much.

In short, Turkey contains many different types of people. As in any country, there is the good, and there is the bad.

[shamrock_uk]

Originally posted by Morgeruat: quote: Originally posted by shamrock_uk: Within the EU however, especially with regards to Turkey joining, this issue often serves as a cover for the real reason for opposition - racial.

Change that to cultural and I think you'd have a far more accurate statement, is Turkey being asked to meet the same requirements for membership as other nations? (No death penalty, equal rights for women, and protection of minorities < religious, racial, cultural, etc>, are they a nation that could "fit in" with the EU?) Do they meet all the requirements expected of other EU nations without any qualifiers or exceptions?

If they do not then the fault is not racists at the EU beaurocracy, it is Turkey's inability to function at the same level as a non-muslim nation in the international arena. If they do then perhaps there might be merit to blaiming racism, but I doubt that is the case. [/QUOTE]Hmm, I understood that there are countries within the EU that are opposed to membership full stop and have stated that they will block Turkey's entry regardless of their meeting the criteria. (But I would be the first to join you in condemning Turkey's rather woeful human rights record)

Sorry, the knowledge is very stale as European politics dulls my brain, but I'm pretty sure Greece is one and one of the central countries as well...perhaps it was Austria. The attitude is basically "no entry because they're Turks".

[Morgeruat]

OK, that makes a bit more sense, the issue isn't one I tend to read up on, just the occasional article here and there, then again EU politics doesn't really interest me most of the time.

[Luvian]

Were Armenians living only in Turkey back then? Were the Turks only trying to exterminate those living within their borders, or those through the world?

I fon't know anything about this subject, but it's not a genocide if they only wanted to wipe some of them, it's just mass killing.

[True_Moose]

Originally posted by Luvian: Were Armenians living only in Turkey back then? Were the Turks only trying to exterminate those living within their borders, or those through the world? I fon't know anything about this subject, but it's not a genocide if they only wanted to wipe some of them, it's just mass killing.

Armenia was in the Ottoman Empire, which was a multinational empire ruled by Turks. At the time, the thing was totally unstable, and at the end of a 100 year long decline. The Ottoman Empire, in a last desperate gambit, sided with the Central Powers (Germany & Austria-Hungary) in the First World War.

The Armenians wanted their independence, and the Ottomans feared that the Armenians would help the Russians, who were fighting the Ottomans, to try and curry Russian favor for an independant Armenia. So they death marched them, killing a massive amount of them. That's my understanding of the situation at least - as you can tell from the fact that there is even a debate about this, some of the facts are fuzzy (the Ottomans weren't big on keeping records about this stuff.)

Call it what you want, but it was mass killing targeted at a specific ethnic group only. In my books, that's genocide.

[shamrock_uk]

A lengthy Wikipedia article on the subject, with all the usual quality caveats. Looks comprehensive though.

[ 05-10-2006, 05:43 PM: Message edited by: shamrock_uk ]