US ports

[Chewbacca]

Speaking of Lobbyists, Dubai Ports has apparently retained a small army of them. The lobbyist problem is bad enough without agents of foreign goverment interests hiring them to influence Congress.

Speaking of Lou Dobbs, his coverage of this issue has been awesome. His show first broke this news and the coverage has been so effective that Dubai Ports has declined any and all interviews with CNN until they "shut Lou Dobbs up".

[ 02-22-2006, 06:57 PM: Message edited by: Chewbacca ]

[wanderon]

As a trucker who has dealt directly with one of the terminals involved over the last 4 years I would like to offer a few facts:

1) Its not the whole port thats effected in any of the port cities listed. The port of Los Angeles for instance is made up of numerous "terminals". Each of these terminals have "berths" which is dock space for ships (the exact number of berths depends on the size of the terminal ranging from one or two to perhaps as many as 10. They also have storage areas for incoming and outgoing freight - mostly container freight. These terminals are where container or other cargo carrying ships dock and their cargo is off-loaded (by members of the local dock workers union) and set on rail cars or trucks for distribution to their final destination. It is also where export contaners and other cargo are brought to be loaded on to the outgoing ships fro distribution overseas.

The term "Port" really refers to a large industrial complex that services ships of many types and this company will be taking over operations of only a few docks in any of the "ports" around the US and other ports around the world like one small company in a large industrial park might operate a single warehouse in one city and others in other citys while other companies operate the others in that industrail complex.

The concept that this is "taking over the entire port" in ANY city is just wrong. It is in fact like saying that if Sears were sold to a foriegn company that they would be taking over all the malls in the US. These are just individal terminal operations in many ports around the world.

2) This company from UAE will NOT in ANY WAY be responsible for PORT SECURITY. Port Security is handled by the US Coast Guard and the US Customs Agency. This companys business in this country will revolve around berthing container ships that the US Dock Workers Union will off-load import containers under the direction and supervison of US Customs and then reload those ships with export containers. The only security they will be directly responsible for is securing their own area from people trying to steal containers/freight. The security of whats in the containers is handled by US Customs and frankly they are doing a damn good job at it.

3) A full 80% of all the terminal operations in all US ports are in fact leased to foriegn companies and have been for years.

There is no reason what so ever to stop this deal from going through its just politics as usual - misinformation and misdirection and a bunch of politicians off on vacation thinking they can do some hotdogging for thier contituents.

We need MORE Arab allies not LESS...where do you think our credibility in the Arab world will be when we tell them wel yes it was OK for the Brits and Chinese and Japanese to operate here but its certainly not for YOU PEOPLE...

[Morgeruat]

Originally posted by wanderon: 3) A full 80% of all the terminal operations in all US ports are in fact leased to foriegn companies and have been for years.

This may be true, and probably is, but there a difference between a foreign company and a nationalized foreign company.

[wanderon]

And that difference would be what exactly??

Its just a business like any other business in this country- many terminals are run by the Chinese here on the west coast

Most people seem to have the mistaken impression that this cxomapny will be RUNNING the port- no such thing is happening - they simply offload and onload container freight - like a big outdoor warehouse...

[True_Moose]

I heard an interview with someone on CBC Radio, not with the company, but someone in the industry. Apparently, the UAE company (which also runs the Port of Vancouver, by far the largest in Canada,) is amongst the leaders in its field, and has security and efficiency protocols that others can only dream about. Also important is that almost all of the workers will end up being local longshoreman - they won't be bringing in their own workers, just overseeing things. They also aren't talking about entire ports - in some places, they will be talking about individual piers.

He then went on a rant about Islam-o-phobia, which I could have done without. I rather suspect some issues would have been the same had it been a Cuban or North Korean company. He did mention that the UAE had tighter regulations (like radiation control devices,) than the US did. I also don't really buy the "two terrorists came from there" angle. What's important is not where they came from, it's where they became terrorists. And I believe that problem was dealt with...

The only way that they can apparently block this legislation is to bar all foreign nationals from owning, in which case there is a problem. As Wanderon pointed out, many ports are run by foreigners. Will there be American companies ready to fork out for it?

[Morgeruat]

The legislation I'm aware of them pushing for bars for GOVERNMENTS from buying or controlling US ports. As for nationalized companies vs privately owned companies, think of the railroads vs Amtrack, any business in the soviet union (before it seperated) there's a host of problems that occur when a government takes an active hand in business and industry and trie to run them. As my gov't teacher in High School said, governments are designed to spend money, not make it.

[Nightwing]

I do think it will be an interesting law suit that was filed by New Jersey. They filed one on the grounds of State Soverenty and how this deal ignores the states needs for security and how the state needs to protect itself.

[wanderon]

I keep seeing references to PORT SECURITY and to FORIEGN SECURITY FIRMS in posts about this issue on several boards.

Neither are correct in reference to the takeover of P&O leased properties by the UAE (and international) firm known as DP World.

DP World is in the SHIPPING business NOT the SECURITY business as far as this deal goes. (Altho they may indeed be involved in the security at their OWN port in UAE which would seem to make them a BETTER security risk rather than a poor one)

There seems to be a lot of confusion about the word PORT and the word TERMINAL as well. A PORT - (short for SEAPORT in this case) is the entire collection of numerous TERMINALS and docks in a given location used for private, public and commercial access to the sea. These ports typically include cruise ship berths, marinas, ferry ports, and commercial docks of various types.

What DP World has done was to purchase the terminal operations of P&O. From what I have seen this was done as a result of the shipping business of P&O being taken over by Maersk-Sealand. (Going to the P&O website results in your transfer to the the Maersk site).

At the Port of Los Angeles (Long Beach) Maersk already HAS the largest (and newest) terminal area in the port while the P&O terminal there is quite small by comparison. No doubt this is also the case in many ports where both Maersk and P&O have done business for years. Thus they chose to sell off the P&O physical terminals and DP World an up and coming competitor decided to buy them.

(I have been to and hauled numerous containers in and out of both of these facilities in Long Beach as well as numerous other facilities in this PORT)

PORT SECURITY is handled primarily by the US Coast Guard and US Customs and local organizations usually called _____ Port Authority with the ____ being filled in by the name of the municipailty or state the port is located in. ie: NY Port Authority, PA Port Authority etc.

All commercial and most private shipments of ANY kind entering or leaving the US are controlled and governed by US Customs and entry to and from any US port is under the jurisdiction of both Customs and the Coast Guard and these Port Authoritys. Nothing changes here as a result of this deal.

A TERMINAL is a single docking facility with one or more docks that engages in some sort of commercial business related to ships and is typically "leased" to companies rather than "owned" (ownership generally is retained by the municipality in which the Port exists). It could be a cruise ship line, a container shipping line, a facility for shipping and recieving oil or natural gas,etc etc etc.

A PORT is made up of MANY seperate TERMINALS. DP World has purchased the bulk of P&Os terminals (leases) for the express purpose of expanding their container shipping business. It has nothing at all to do with Port Security and its impact on the overall port in any city might be compared to a company buying Spencers Gifts and taking over thier "portion" of every "Mall". That impact on "Mall security" would be the same as this is on "Port Security"...

[Chewbacca]

I hear the UAE both recognized the Taliban and still does not recognize Isreal.


Of course for even a small piece of billions of dollars in a trillion dollar industry, it can be easy to over-look such things.

[wanderon]

A good portion of the terminals in the ports of this country (USA) are leased by the Chinese whom we have some issues with politically as well - whats the difference? This is not about politics is about commerce.