Liberals cheering the enemy?

[Reeka]

I looked at the "Traitor List." That is the most ridiculous thing I think I have ever seen. So now if you disagree with decisions our leaders make you are a traitor----give me a break.

[Ziroc]

This guy needs help. I hope this guy gets fired. Sick. very sick...

[Reeka]

Mordenheim, you have totally lost and confused me. Who are you talking to in the last two posts you made. It makes absolutely no sense to me what you are saying.

[Rimjaw]

Mordenheim, there was no need to make a mountain out of a molehill.

[Stratos]

Just how left leaning is this Gary Kamiya, he seems more concerned with the failure of Bush than the war.

"I'm not alone: A number of serious, intelligent, morally sensitive people who oppose the war have told me they have had identical feelings."
That doesn´t sound very serious, intelligent or morally sensitive.

I´m not a really big fan of Bush but another four years with him as a president is still much better than thousands of war casaulties. Many people probably secretly wish the failure of their political "enemies" but to wish for alot of deaths is a bit too much to digest. Even if you think like that, to anounce it in public is tasteless.
Still very possible, and even likeky, that some poeple have these opinions. It´s a sick world.

For those of you who say this guy is a "minute minority" of those opposed to the war, I can bring some interesting tales of the demonstration in DC the other weekend. A few thousand kids were protesting with a couple of dozen older people mixed in...and they all seemed to rally round the banners and speakers who were calling for high casualties by the Brits and the US. They were also citing figures of civialian casualties in the was as being so high that only 10% of the population would be left able to survive... We have college teachers wishing for a million Mogadishu's...don't try to kid us, or yourselves that a great many of the "left" were in fact hoping that their doom and gloom predictions would come true so that they could use that to further their agenda.

Of course there are those who will argue the points.

April 21, 2003, 7:15 a.m.
Mogadishu, Mon Amour
Elites dream of American failure.

American and European intellectual elites were not moved to action when 182,000 Kurds — a people who trace their history back more than 3,000 years — were slaughtered by Saddam Hussein.

The chattering classes hardly flinched when Saddam drained the wetlands of southern Iraq, destroying the environment of the Marsh Arabs and, with it, a 5,000-year-old way of life.

But now they’ve got their dander up: Iraq’s antiquities have been vandalized.

That the Iraq National Museum was looted is, of course, a tragedy. But isn’t it curious that the same people who now insist that U.S. Marines should have used lethal force to protect cuneiform tablets were, just a few weeks ago, arguing that only non-military actions were appropriate to stop Saddam’s looting of billions of dollars worth of oil wealth — not to mention his mass murders of ancient peoples?

Those now expressing outrage are careful not to assign blame to the looters themselves. (That may prove more difficult if it turns out that professional thieves were primarily responsible for the heist.) Nor are they looking for “root causes” in the damage that might have been done to Iraqi civil society by a dictator who for 30 years taught that the law was whatever appeared above his signature.

Rather, as the authors of an op-ed prominently displayed in the New York Times on Thursday put it: “The American and British forces are clearly to blame for the destruction and displacement of [Iraq’s] cultural treasures.” Echoed former Ambassador Peter Galbraith: “The U.S. allowed this to happen.” (I don’t recall Galbraith, a former ambassador to Croatia, speaking up as strongly in 1992 when the National and University Library and the Oriental Institute in Sarajevo were burned to the ground by Serb rockets.)

Let’s try to put the sacking and the elites’ response in context.

Opponents of regime change in Iraq could not conceal their disappointment when Baghdad did not turn out to be another Mogadishu, when instead of attacking U.S. troops, Iraqis welcomed them, waved homemade American flags, told the “human shields” they were “wankers” who should get out, and even kissed portraits of President Bush.

And it wasn’t just the Loony Left and the Pro-Appeasement Paleoconservatives who bemoaned Iraq’s liberation. Many members of the Elite Liberal Establishment enthusiastically joined in.

Youssef Ibrahim is a senior fellow of the Council on Foreign Relations and a former Middle East correspondent for the New York Times — you can’t get much more Elite Liberal Establishment than that. I happened to appear with him on To the Point with Warren Olney (a Public Radio International program, broadcast on National Public Radio stations — O.K., so that’s even more Elite Liberal Establishment).

As pictures of Iraqis dancing in the streets of Baghdad were being broadcast to the world, Ibrahim pronounced what was taking place a “day of complete Muslim and Arab catastrophe.”

“Baghdad is not just any place,” he explained. “It is a pillar of Arab culture. It was the seat of many Muslim empires and glory days and … for a country like this to fall under a new regime which is called American occupation is a profound trauma for both Arabs and Muslims.”

He threw in for good measure that it was the obviously the “intention of the neoconservatives in Washington” to turn Iraq “into a private gasoline pumping station.”

Are such views the product of ignorance or anti-Americanism? Is Ibrahim unfamiliar with the pains that have accompanied liberations in the past — from France to Italy to Romania to Russia? Or does he believe it is better to live under oppression, to suffer poverty, torture, and rape, than to be liberated by a people so vulgar that they eat at McDonalds, watch American Idol, and elect George W. Bush as their leader?

The challenges ahead in Iraq — and in the rest of the Arab and Muslim worlds — are enormous. They will only be made more difficult by the those who called 12 years of indulging Saddam a “rush to war,” who called three weeks of combat a “quagmire,” and who now imply that the sacking of a museum vitiates the liberation of a nation from Baathist tyranny.

For whatever reasons, too many prominent Americans wish for America’s failure — and claim to find evidence of it everywhere they look.


Source Link: http://www.nationalreview.com/may/may042103.asp

[ 04-21-2003, 09:35 AM: Message edited by: MagiK ]

[Chewbacca]

Originally posted by MagiK: For those of you who say this guy is a "minute minority" of those opposed to the war, I can bring some interesting tales of the demonstration in DC the other weekend. A few thousand kids were protesting with a couple of dozen older people mixed in...and they all seemed to rally round the banners and speakers who were calling for high casualties by the Brits and the US. They were also citing figures of civialian casualties in the was as being so high that only 10% of the population would be left able to survive... We have college teachers wishing for a million Mogadishu's...don't try to kid us, or yourselves that a great many of the "left" were in fact hoping that their doom and gloom predictions would come true so that they could use that to further their agenda. Of course there are those who will argue the points.

Yeah, right... hundreds of thousands of Americans wanted a bloodbath, a long dragged out war with lots of U.S. body bags. Every single one of these people went to preace rallies and call themselves liberal or left. Thousands of them, your nieghbor, your teacher, your preacher. Traitors are everywhere in our midst.

Say it out loud and realize just how ridiculous it sounds. A bunch of B.S.

Originally posted by Chewbacca: quote: Originally posted by MagiK: For those of you who say this guy is a "minute minority" of those opposed to the war, I can bring some interesting tales of the demonstration in DC the other weekend. A few thousand kids were protesting with a couple of dozen older people mixed in...and they all seemed to rally round the banners and speakers who were calling for high casualties by the Brits and the US. They were also citing figures of civialian casualties in the was as being so high that only 10% of the population would be left able to survive... We have college teachers wishing for a million Mogadishu's...don't try to kid us, or yourselves that a great many of the "left" were in fact hoping that their doom and gloom predictions would come true so that they could use that to further their agenda. Of course there are those who will argue the points.

Yeah, right... hundreds of thousands of Americans wanted a bloodbath, a long dragged out war with lots of U.S. body bags. Every single one of these people went to preace rallies and call themselves liberal or left. Thousands of them, your nieghbor, your teacher, your preacher. Traitors are everywhere in our midst.

Say it out loud and realize just how ridiculous it sounds. A bunch of B.S. [/QUOTE]Errr Did I say "Hundreds of thousands? I seem to read it as saying "a few thousand young people and a few dozen older peeps...". And I am pretty sure I never used the word "traitor", so please do not put your words into my mouth.

I think the motivation of the people I observed was quite apparent...it was all about socialism vs capitalism.....they just used to war to futher their socialistic agenda. It is however really frustrating when you talk to some of the idealistic and fervent young people, when you ask that they answer a question, they get flustered, and resort to emotionalism rather than knowing the facts...they protest because the cause "Sounds good" but never really explore the issue beyond a surface level.

Im not saying all or most protestors are like this group, Im just talking aobut the group I saw.

[ 04-21-2003, 12:37 PM: Message edited by: MagiK ]

[Desdicado]

Well I feel no shame in saying I wanted Iraq to win.
Not through love of Saddam Hussein but just to show the US that it doesn't have the right to force its opinions on everyone else. It seems to me the US just can't accept that not everyone wants to be an American.
Apparently, in opinion poles 33% of French folks wanted Iraq to win also, not often I agree with the french but there you go.

Ah well, lets see how far Bush gets if he picks on North Korea. Actually i want you to win that one.
Incidentally, I am not particularly a liberal.

[ 04-21-2003, 05:49 PM: Message edited by: Desdicado ]