there`s got to be peace

[cloud88]

true....true but...not me [img]graemlins/showoff.gif[/img]
its upp to that person if its heaven or hell

[Magness]

Barry the Sprout,

With regard to "seeing the incontrivertible evidence", it seems very unlikely that you or anyone outside of the highest levels of government will ever see that evidence, since intelligence agencies never want to reveal their info or how they got it. Revealing data can often be as good as revealing the means by which it was gathered. And telling your enemy how you found out something can quite likely tell them how to avoid letting us get a hold of new data in the future. Or even more deadly, if the data was gathered from a person, if the enemy can determine that they have a spy in their midst and who it might be, the enemy can then kill that spy. Bad for intel gathering agency (a source of data that no longer exists). Much worse for the spy (he or she is dead).

Furthermore, intel agencies do not see themselves as the investigatory arms of their goverments' justice system. In large part for the reasons described above. Also, they're more interested in PREVENTING terrorism or providing data to their govt so that the government can make well informed policy decisions.

At some point, you simply have to trust that your leaders are making well informed and moral decisions.

[Yorick]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Barry the Sprout:
When people are going to die the "word on the street" is not enough for me. I want absolutely incontravertable proof. Have I had it yet? No.

---

How are you going to see incontravertable proof Barry? What are you wanting to see or do? Walk up to Bin Laden and ask him? There is already "proof". Mountains of it. Check it out. It all starts with Mohammad Atta and ends with Bin Laden.

[Yorick]

Life time in jail - you could read books, talk to people, write a book, write songs, learn languages, sing every day, practice the harmonica.

Watch baribe-show?? on tape every morning of your life - and then get on with the rest of your days and nights. Days and nights you wouldn't have if dead.

Getting f****d in showers all your life by gays in prison - As said, some would love this. If it were rape you're getting close. Even so, the situation passes. Even if continually repeated the situation is not everlasting and has respite. Merciful, precious respite. "Life" would be those moments of solitude, and would still be moments you would not have if dead.

Why do many on death row do all they can to avoid execution?

All that said of course, I see death as the door into another existance, but it's not something I'd gleefully embrace, or totally fear.

I love life.

[cloud88]

well anyway this is the way i see life and death:
as long as you lived a good life whit lots of fun and did all that you want to do you can go hang yourself,jump from a bridge for all i care whats wrong about death if you have lived your life out to the max?

[Yorick]

quote:

---

Originally posted by cloud88:
whats wrong about death if you have lived your life out to the max?

---

That the maxed out life is finished?????

That your loved ones get hurt when you go!!!!

Try a myriad of reasons mate.

[tracey]

quote:

---

Originally posted by cloud88:
well anyway this is the way i see life and death:
as long as you lived a good life whit lots of fun and did all that you want to do you can go hang yourself,jump from a bridge for all i care whats wrong about death if you have lived your life out to the max?

---

absolutely nothing. it's the one certainty and the one thing thing we're all moving towards. so. if you've done everything you wanted to - well done! although, i hope this hasn't happened yet? (slight concern!!!) roger mcgough wrote a lovely poem called 'let me die a young man's death' and another poem by jenny bond starts: 'when i grow old i shall wear purple with a red hat that doesn;t go and doesn;t suit me'

both poem's sum up the joy and freedom of old age and approaching death with a delicious humour that i celebrate.

i actually hate, loathe and detest poetry usually, however there are one or two that really hit the spot. spike milligam and hillaire belloc, andrew marvell and john donne. aaaah, can;t beat 'em. but you can shove wordworth, tennyson and the like wherever you fancy - preferably somewhere dark and moist [img]smile.gif[/img]

[Silver Cheetah]

quote:

---

Originally posted by tracey:



i actually hate, loathe and detest poetry usually, however there are one or two that really hit the spot. spike milligam and hillaire belloc, andrew marvell and john donne. aaaah, can;t beat 'em. but you can shove wordworth, tennyson and the like wherever you fancy - preferably somewhere dark and moist [img]smile.gif[/img]

---

Aha. Finally an explanation for the rather smelly copy of Ezra Pound that has been lurking in your loo for lo, these many moons....

[img]graemlins/nibbles.gif[/img]

[tracey]

damn! i though i'd flushed!!!!

[Yorick]

quote:

---

Originally posted by tracey:


absolutely nothing. it's the one certainty and the one thing thing we're all moving towards. so. if you've done everything you wanted to - well done! although, i hope this hasn't happened yet? (slight concern!!!) roger mcgough wrote a lovely poem called 'let me die a young man's death' and another poem by jenny bond starts: 'when i grow old i shall wear purple with a red hat that doesn;t go and doesn;t suit me'

both poem's sum up the joy and freedom of old age and approaching death with a delicious humour that i celebrate.

i actually hate, loathe and detest poetry usually, however there are one or two that really hit the spot. spike milligam and hillaire belloc, andrew marvell and john donne. aaaah, can;t beat 'em. but you can shove wordworth, tennyson and the like wherever you fancy - preferably somewhere dark and moist [img]smile.gif[/img]

---

Interesting differences between us. You "hate and loathe" poetry and see nothing wrong with death.

I don't.

Which one of us is being positive here?