What's your opinion on.... - Page 2

skywalker · 11-13-2001, 01:17 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Ronn_Bman:

I kind of doubt it was an "off the cuff" remark. I imagine it was planned and said to achieve a certain reaction. Some don't like the way it "came off", others think it's a good. Kind of like the war in general, no one completely agrees.

Remember his "old west, wanted dead or alive" poster comment? This I thought came off very stiff, and too obvious. That's the kind of statement you have to say like you mean it, or not say at all. I was behind the idea, but the statement didn't "bring me in".

[ 11-13-2001: Message edited by: Ronn_Bman ]

Very little if anything in Bush's planned speeches are "off the cuff". You can see that by the way he keeps using the same phrases over and over. I tend to dislike it because phrases like "get him dead or alive", "smoke'em out of their holes", "they are evildoers", "bring them to justice", and others become little more than catch phrases. I'd like hear something different so that it least it sounds legit and real.

Ronn_Bman · 11-13-2001, 01:27 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Ryanamur:

Don't worry Ronn, I don't think, that you're a madman and I do believe that you are much more intelligent than your president. I just don't like the guy and I sure don't expect (or blame anyone) for not sharing my point of view.

I too believe that it wasn't an off-the-cuff remark. He said it because he wanted to pass a message: you are with us in all of it or you are against us. That is really narrow minded thinking that quite frankly is just as bad as Bin Ladden wanting to bring America and it's friends down.

I think that most leaders in this world are supporting Bush because they are afraid of him more than they are afraid of Bin Ladden. The guy is a moron and he is recongnized as such internationnally (and I can say that because I don't live in the USA). At least with Bin we know what his reaction (and course of action is). Bush is stupid, unpredictable and has the most powerfull nation in the world to back him... a very dangerous combination if you ask me.

Am I scare of Bin Ladden? Of course not. Am I scared of Bush? Of course I'm for the very reasons that I pointed out above. Which is worse, to have an idiot or an intelligent madman, I don't know. Napoleon, Bin Ladden, Alexander the Great, Julius Ceasar, Tito, Mao, Hitler, Stalin are exemples of intelligent madman who held views similar to those of Bush (narrow mindness and superiority)... I think that Bush is the first of his kind and that scares the **** out of me!

I really don't get your point. How are Bush's views similar to Hitler's or any of the others you mentioned? You don't like him and that's fine, but those examples really don't add to your point. Also terms like idiot, moron, and stupid don't help. He is neither an idiot, moron, or stupid and nothing he has done in his 10 months in office support that.

Has he been unpopular on the international level? Yes, but none of those other things apply, and I don't see how they help the debate.

Ryanamur · 11-13-2001, 01:31 PM

I guess it's my views on the man and his actions. It's hard to formulate, but that's the way I rate him. Sorry I can't be more argumentative than that.

Ronn_Bman · 11-13-2001, 01:32 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Ryanamur:
I guess it's my views on the man and his actions. It's hard to formulate, but that's the way I rate him. Sorry I can't be more argumentative than that.

Not liking him is A-OK! [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img]

Lots of American's don't like him either. I'm just not one of them, but even I don't think he's a "rocket scientist". [img]graemlins/hehe.gif[/img]

[ 11-13-2001: Message edited by: Ronn_Bman ]

Neb · 11-13-2001, 01:35 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Ronn_Bman:

I really don't get your point. How are Bush's views similar to Hitler's or any of the others you mentioned? You don't like him and that's fine, but those examples really don't add to your point. Also terms like idiot, moron, and stupid don't help. He is neither an idiot, moron, or stupid and nothing he has done in his 10 months in office support that.

*Cough*KyotoTreaty*Cough* Sorry, just had a really bad cough there [img]smile.gif[/img]

That's one of the things that makes me dislike him, as well as him raising the limits on various unhealthy things in the american drinking water.

Ronn_Bman · 11-13-2001, 01:40 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Neb:

*Cough*KyotoTreaty*Cough* Sorry, just had a really bad cough there [img]smile.gif[/img]

That's one of the things that makes me dislike him, as well as him raising the limits on various unhealthy things in the american drinking water.

*offers Neb a lozenge realizing his lozenge supply is running low*

Good point and I don't believe he's perfect either.

Ryanamur · 11-13-2001, 01:46 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Ronn_Bman:

...I'm just not one of them, but even I don't think he's a "rocket scientist". [img]graemlins/hehe.gif[/img]

[ 11-13-2001: Message edited by: Ronn_Bman ]

Again, we agree. I don't think he's a "rocket scientist" either

Ryanamur · 11-13-2001, 01:50 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Neb:

*Cough*KyotoTreaty*Cough* Sorry, just had a really bad cough there [img]smile.gif[/img]

That's one of the things that makes me dislike him, as well as him raising the limits on various unhealthy things in the american drinking water.

Neb, I don't think that Bush is the only one to blame for Kyoto. It was trully not in the best interest of American multi-nationals and thus, not in the best interest of the USA to ratify this treaty. Even if Bush would have signed it (I don't even think that Clinton would of), I don't think it would have passed Congress. Politics is politics!

Ronn will be proud of me, I'm actually defending him (Bush)

I guess my signature is fitting after all [img]smile.gif[/img]

[ 11-13-2001: Message edited by: Ryanamur ]

Ronn_Bman · 11-13-2001, 02:07 PM

quote:
Originally posted by skywalker:

Very little if anything in Bush's planned speeches are "off the cuff". You can see that by the way he keeps using the same phrases over and over. I tend to dislike it because phrases like "get him dead or alive", "smoke'em out of their holes", "they are evildoers", "bring them to justice", and others become little more than catch phrases. I'd like hear something different so that it least it sounds legit and real.

I think he sounds best when he's not in a scripted enviroment and he "comes across" like a regular guy. His initial visit to "ground zero" was a prime example.

Some presidents have been great at turning phrases like
Ronald Reagan's "There he goes again!"(referring to Jimmy Carter in a 1980 debate), and "Tear down this wall!"(in Berlin). Reagan had a great ability to make both "off the cuff" remarks and scripted remarks sound natural and conversational, while others, like Bush, don't.

Charisma can be a dangerous thing, too! People judging you on your personality and not your actions isn't really good for public office.

Ronn_Bman · 11-13-2001, 02:13 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Ryanamur:

Neb, I don't think that Bush is the only one to blame for Kyoto. It was trully not in the best interest of American multi-nationals and thus, not in the best interest of the USA to ratify this treaty. Even if Bush would have signed it (I don't even think that Clinton would of), I don't think it would have passed Congress. Politics is politics!

Ronn will be proud of me, I'm actually defending him (Bush) I guess my signature is fitting after all [img]smile.gif[/img]

[ 11-13-2001: Message edited by: Ryanamur ]

Agreement isn't our problem, it's consistancy of agreement...lol. [img]graemlins/hehe.gif[/img]

As the constitution is written, treaties have to be ratified by a 2/3 majority of the Senate, and they refused to do so under Clinton. When Clinton realized he couldn't get it passed, he planned to manipulate the EPA (Enviroment Protection Agency) to initiate the Kyoto Accords' standards. The Senate passed legislation to block his "back door" approach, and it passed 95-0.

Bush refused to accept Kyoto on the grounds of protecting businesses and the economy, but it's really a moot point, because even if he had wanted to, he couldn't get it done.

[ 11-13-2001: Message edited by: Ronn_Bman ]

11-13-2001, 01:17 PM	#11
skywalker Banned User Join Date: March 1, 2001 Location: VT, USA Age: 64 Posts: 3,097	quote: Originally posted by Ronn_Bman: I kind of doubt it was an "off the cuff" remark. I imagine it was planned and said to achieve a certain reaction. Some don't like the way it "came off", others think it's a good. Kind of like the war in general, no one completely agrees. Remember his "old west, wanted dead or alive" poster comment? This I thought came off very stiff, and too obvious. That's the kind of statement you have to say like you mean it, or not say at all. I was behind the idea, but the statement didn't "bring me in". [ 11-13-2001: Message edited by: Ronn_Bman ] Very little if anything in Bush's planned speeches are "off the cuff". You can see that by the way he keeps using the same phrases over and over. I tend to dislike it because phrases like "get him dead or alive", "smoke'em out of their holes", "they are evildoers", "bring them to justice", and others become little more than catch phrases. I'd like hear something different so that it least it sounds legit and real.

11-13-2001, 01:27 PM	#12
Ronn_Bman Zartan Join Date: March 11, 2001 Location: North Carolina USA Age: 58 Posts: 5,177	quote: Originally posted by Ryanamur: Don't worry Ronn, I don't think, that you're a madman and I do believe that you are much more intelligent than your president. I just don't like the guy and I sure don't expect (or blame anyone) for not sharing my point of view. I too believe that it wasn't an off-the-cuff remark. He said it because he wanted to pass a message: you are with us in all of it or you are against us. That is really narrow minded thinking that quite frankly is just as bad as Bin Ladden wanting to bring America and it's friends down. I think that most leaders in this world are supporting Bush because they are afraid of him more than they are afraid of Bin Ladden. The guy is a moron and he is recongnized as such internationnally (and I can say that because I don't live in the USA). At least with Bin we know what his reaction (and course of action is). Bush is stupid, unpredictable and has the most powerfull nation in the world to back him... a very dangerous combination if you ask me. Am I scare of Bin Ladden? Of course not. Am I scared of Bush? Of course I'm for the very reasons that I pointed out above. Which is worse, to have an idiot or an intelligent madman, I don't know. Napoleon, Bin Ladden, Alexander the Great, Julius Ceasar, Tito, Mao, Hitler, Stalin are exemples of intelligent madman who held views similar to those of Bush (narrow mindness and superiority)... I think that Bush is the first of his kind and that scares the **** out of me! I really don't get your point. How are Bush's views similar to Hitler's or any of the others you mentioned? You don't like him and that's fine, but those examples really don't add to your point. Also terms like idiot, moron, and stupid don't help. He is neither an idiot, moron, or stupid and nothing he has done in his 10 months in office support that. Has he been unpopular on the international level? Yes, but none of those other things apply, and I don't see how they help the debate. __________________ [img]\"http://home.carolina.rr.com/orthanc/pics/Spinning%20Hammer%20Sig%20Pic.gif\" alt=\" - \" />

11-13-2001, 01:31 PM	#13
Ryanamur Fzoul Chembryl Join Date: March 29, 2001 Location: Montréal, Canada Age: 50 Posts: 1,763	I guess it's my views on the man and his actions. It's hard to formulate, but that's the way I rate him. Sorry I can't be more argumentative than that. __________________ An idiot will only play Russian roulette with an automatic pistol! Thank God they only do it once! <img border=\"0\" title=\"\" alt=\"[Smile]\" src=\"smile.gif\" />

11-13-2001, 01:32 PM	#14
Ronn_Bman Zartan Join Date: March 11, 2001 Location: North Carolina USA Age: 58 Posts: 5,177	quote: Originally posted by Ryanamur: I guess it's my views on the man and his actions. It's hard to formulate, but that's the way I rate him. Sorry I can't be more argumentative than that. Not liking him is A-OK! [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img] Lots of American's don't like him either. I'm just not one of them, but even I don't think he's a "rocket scientist". [img]graemlins/hehe.gif[/img] [ 11-13-2001: Message edited by: Ronn_Bman ] __________________ [img]\"http://home.carolina.rr.com/orthanc/pics/Spinning%20Hammer%20Sig%20Pic.gif\" alt=\" - \" />

11-13-2001, 01:35 PM	#15
Neb Account deleted by Request Join Date: May 17, 2001 Location: . Age: 39 Posts: 8,802	quote: Originally posted by Ronn_Bman: I really don't get your point. How are Bush's views similar to Hitler's or any of the others you mentioned? You don't like him and that's fine, but those examples really don't add to your point. Also terms like idiot, moron, and stupid don't help. He is neither an idiot, moron, or stupid and nothing he has done in his 10 months in office support that. CoughKyotoTreatyCough Sorry, just had a really bad cough there [img]smile.gif[/img] That's one of the things that makes me dislike him, as well as him raising the limits on various unhealthy things in the american drinking water.

11-13-2001, 01:40 PM	#16
Ronn_Bman Zartan Join Date: March 11, 2001 Location: North Carolina USA Age: 58 Posts: 5,177	quote: Originally posted by Neb: CoughKyotoTreatyCough Sorry, just had a really bad cough there [img]smile.gif[/img] That's one of the things that makes me dislike him, as well as him raising the limits on various unhealthy things in the american drinking water. offers Neb a lozenge realizing his lozenge supply is running low Good point and I don't believe he's perfect either. __________________ [img]\"http://home.carolina.rr.com/orthanc/pics/Spinning%20Hammer%20Sig%20Pic.gif\" alt=\" - \" />

11-13-2001, 01:46 PM	#17
Ryanamur Fzoul Chembryl Join Date: March 29, 2001 Location: Montréal, Canada Age: 50 Posts: 1,763	quote: Originally posted by Ronn_Bman: ...I'm just not one of them, but even I don't think he's a "rocket scientist". [img]graemlins/hehe.gif[/img] [ 11-13-2001: Message edited by: Ronn_Bman ] Again, we agree. I don't think he's a "rocket scientist" either __________________ An idiot will only play Russian roulette with an automatic pistol! Thank God they only do it once! <img border=\"0\" title=\"\" alt=\"[Smile]\" src=\"smile.gif\" />

11-13-2001, 01:50 PM	#18
Ryanamur Fzoul Chembryl Join Date: March 29, 2001 Location: Montréal, Canada Age: 50 Posts: 1,763	quote: Originally posted by Neb: CoughKyotoTreatyCough Sorry, just had a really bad cough there [img]smile.gif[/img] That's one of the things that makes me dislike him, as well as him raising the limits on various unhealthy things in the american drinking water. Neb, I don't think that Bush is the only one to blame for Kyoto. It was trully not in the best interest of American multi-nationals and thus, not in the best interest of the USA to ratify this treaty. Even if Bush would have signed it (I don't even think that Clinton would of), I don't think it would have passed Congress. Politics is politics! Ronn will be proud of me, I'm actually defending him (Bush) I guess my signature is fitting after all [img]smile.gif[/img] [ 11-13-2001: Message edited by: Ryanamur ] __________________ An idiot will only play Russian roulette with an automatic pistol! Thank God they only do it once! <img border=\"0\" title=\"\" alt=\"[Smile]\" src=\"smile.gif\" />

11-13-2001, 02:07 PM	#19
Ronn_Bman Zartan Join Date: March 11, 2001 Location: North Carolina USA Age: 58 Posts: 5,177	quote: Originally posted by skywalker: Very little if anything in Bush's planned speeches are "off the cuff". You can see that by the way he keeps using the same phrases over and over. I tend to dislike it because phrases like "get him dead or alive", "smoke'em out of their holes", "they are evildoers", "bring them to justice", and others become little more than catch phrases. I'd like hear something different so that it least it sounds legit and real. I think he sounds best when he's not in a scripted enviroment and he "comes across" like a regular guy. His initial visit to "ground zero" was a prime example. Some presidents have been great at turning phrases like Ronald Reagan's "There he goes again!"(referring to Jimmy Carter in a 1980 debate), and "Tear down this wall!"(in Berlin). Reagan had a great ability to make both "off the cuff" remarks and scripted remarks sound natural and conversational, while others, like Bush, don't. Charisma can be a dangerous thing, too! People judging you on your personality and not your actions isn't really good for public office. __________________ [img]\"http://home.carolina.rr.com/orthanc/pics/Spinning%20Hammer%20Sig%20Pic.gif\" alt=\" - \" />

11-13-2001, 02:13 PM	#20
Ronn_Bman Zartan Join Date: March 11, 2001 Location: North Carolina USA Age: 58 Posts: 5,177	quote: Originally posted by Ryanamur: Neb, I don't think that Bush is the only one to blame for Kyoto. It was trully not in the best interest of American multi-nationals and thus, not in the best interest of the USA to ratify this treaty. Even if Bush would have signed it (I don't even think that Clinton would of), I don't think it would have passed Congress. Politics is politics! Ronn will be proud of me, I'm actually defending him (Bush) I guess my signature is fitting after all [img]smile.gif[/img] [ 11-13-2001: Message edited by: Ryanamur ] Agreement isn't our problem, it's consistancy of agreement...lol. [img]graemlins/hehe.gif[/img] As the constitution is written, treaties have to be ratified by a 2/3 majority of the Senate, and they refused to do so under Clinton. When Clinton realized he couldn't get it passed, he planned to manipulate the EPA (Enviroment Protection Agency) to initiate the Kyoto Accords' standards. The Senate passed legislation to block his "back door" approach, and it passed 95-0. Bush refused to accept Kyoto on the grounds of protecting businesses and the economy, but it's really a moot point, because even if he had wanted to, he couldn't get it done. [ 11-13-2001: Message edited by: Ronn_Bman ] __________________ [img]\"http://home.carolina.rr.com/orthanc/pics/Spinning%20Hammer%20Sig%20Pic.gif\" alt=\" - \" />

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