America Bully or Benevolent?

[tracey]

it would be nice if people and nations were equal. however, they're not.

i'm with the gnomes (obviously!) but am happy to be in a situation that can challenge perception and perhaps work towards raising the awareness of others' - myself included, in how the world functions and how we should constantly challrnge inequality on a moral level.

not to say i take the moral highground - quite the reverse. i tend to have a bash at understanding the other viewpoint - sometimes i do sometimes not.

america does have far too much power in the world today and lots of nations son't like it. i agree that balance is called for.

but where that balance could come from is a different question........



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offended mistress of the illuminati

America is the most powerful nation in the world today, that much is probably true. If it were benevolent this could be a good thing. But power there is concentrated in the hands of the rich. These people & corperations want to stay rich and get richer and care little for the consequences to others or the enviroment,nor can they care about the long term effects like global warming. The only balencing power there is against america is nuclear weapons.
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There is a tower in the Emperor's palace called the Tower of Heroes, at the summit of that tower hangs the Bell of Lost Souls. Its wailing moan of grief lasts long and reaches the ears of millions, and its tones penetrate the unifying ether of humanity turning the thought of countless billions towards mankind's loss.

[This message has been edited by Dramnek_Ulk (edited 10-29-2001).]

[Barry the Sprout]

I couldn't agree more - countries are essentially artificial constructs anyway. This is being shown to be more and more true in todays globalised world. Ultimately boundaries of race are simply used to divide people into smaller and smaller groups to allow them to be squashed that bit more easily. With regards to the US they are a Superpower in that the US political system is the voice of the most powerful economic groups on the planet. But the real Superpower is that conglomerate of capital that props it up globally. Even that Empire will end one day though - if you look at Adam Smith all the way through to Karl Marx they will all say "nothing lasts forever".

By the way I actually agree with Ronn on this topic. The US is not openly malevolent but it does put its interest above others. I think me and Ronn will probably disagree on whether that is a good thing or not....

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Life is like a piece of cheese. Mice only enjoy it in cartoons and it is better with toast

[Ronn_Bman]

Originally posted by Barry the Sprout: By the way I actually agree with Ronn on this topic. The US is not openly malevolent but it does put its interest above others. I think me and Ronn will probably disagree on whether that is a good thing or not....

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"Your right to swing your fist ends where my nose begins."

[Barry the Sprout]

Dammit - too computer illiterate to use smilies!
Basically I think that US foreign intervention has been governed for a while by a wish of global capital to further their own markets. This has been done time and again at the expense of people across the globe, all the while being justified to Americans and the Western powers in general by describing it as humanitarian or similar. But that is the system we live under - it sucks and it might change someday, but it is not going to do so any time soon.

This would finish with something cheesy and sentimental but I can't figure out how to do that. Damn! Damn! Damn!

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Life is like a piece of cheese. Mice only enjoy it in cartoons and it is better with toast

For those of you who have expressed feelings of intimidation by the size of our country, try seeing us as 50 gnomes standing in a huddle.

America is a Superpower because:

Other nations say it is so.

I think the other nations that have set this country in the front seat as world police do so because they won't risk their own to do it themselves. (Please everyone, try not to take that statement so offensively, it is my opinion)

I see it as both a good and a bad thing because we are held up by others for our position out in front, however I do believe that when we take a fall, no one will rush forward to catch us.
I can even see fingers being pointed at us saying we had it coming, that it was inevitable, etc. Well, with no one else in action with us, it will be inevitable, but will we deserve it? For doing what others don't want to?
Who will watch their backs then? Who is second in line to be first and why do we have to line up anyway?!

:leaving lid off of can of worms:




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The best thing about karma is that you create your own.

Pets Need Love Too

[skywalker]

Originally posted by Moni: For those of you who have expressed feelings of intimidation by the size of our country, try seeing us as 50 gnomes standing in a huddle. America is a Superpower because: Other nations say it is so. I think the other nations that have set this country in the front seat as world police do so because they won't risk their own to do it themselves. (Please everyone, try not to take that statement so offensively, it is my opinion) I see it as both a good and a bad thing because we are held up by others for our position out in front, however I do believe that when we take a fall, no one will rush forward to catch us. I can even see fingers being pointed at us saying we had it coming, that it was inevitable, etc. Well, with no one else in action with us, it will be inevitable, but will we deserve it? For doing what others don't want to? Who will watch their backs then? Who is second in line to be first and why do we have to line up anyway?! :leaving lid off of can of worms:

The greatest thing about you Moni, is that you have an opinion and you stick with it and your not afraid of making it known!

That's why I love you so!



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Still The Most Humbly Prideful (?) Member Of The Illuminati!

Mark

[Barry the Sprout]

Moni - I am so glad that that post had a due sense of good humour as other wise I would have been very pissed off!

1st point: As a Brit it is a little difficult to see how the US has always acted alone and how we will not help if you fall. Remember that there are British and German troops in Afghanistan with you there - whether or not the British people like it as Parliament has not been given a vote on the issue. Also remember that your role as world policeman in WW2 was a good 2 years behind ours and france's. Not that the help wasn't appreciated (would put some kind of smily in here - wee earlier post).

2nd point: Surely one thing that can be learned and acted on from this whole mess is that there are a lot of people who disagree with the American publics view of its own foreign policy. The actions that America has taken are ultimatley self motivated and self serving for the most part. It is often played upon how America is the greatest nation in the world. It has had to work hard to keep itself there over the last few years and a lot of people are starting to wonder why they are still doing it. Fukuyama wrote 11 years ago that we had experienced the end of history - this is sadly showing that it is only the beginning...

Taking the can of worms and throwing it all over the people in the forum, hoping that they don't start to be pissed off...

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Life is like a piece of cheese. Mice only enjoy it in cartoons and it is better with toast

Originally posted by skywalker: The greatest thing about you Moni, is that you have an opinion and you stick with it and your not afraid of making it known! That's why I love you so!

Thank you Mark!
It is a great comfort to know that you are so caring about everything and everyone and that you are someone I can call my friend!
Many Hugs & Much Love To You!




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The best thing about karma is that you create your own.

Pets Need Love Too

Originally posted by Barry the Sprout: Moni - I am so glad that that post had a due sense of good humour as other wise I would have been very pissed off! 1st point: As a Brit it is a little difficult to see how the US has always acted alone and how we will not help if you fall. Remember that there are British and German troops in Afghanistan with you there - whether or not the British people like it as Parliament has not been given a vote on the issue. Also remember that your role as world policeman in WW2 was a good 2 years behind ours and france's. Not that the help wasn't appreciated (would put some kind of smily in here - wee earlier post). 2nd point: Surely one thing that can be learned and acted on from this whole mess is that there are a lot of people who disagree with the American publics view of its own foreign policy. The actions that America has taken are ultimatley self motivated and self serving for the most part. It is often played upon how America is the greatest nation in the world. It has had to work hard to keep itself there over the last few years and a lot of people are starting to wonder why they are still doing it. Fukuyama wrote 11 years ago that we had experienced the end of history - this is sadly showing that it is only the beginning... Taking the can of worms and throwing it all over the people in the forum, hoping that they don't start to be pissed off...

I am very glad that my post did not piss you off!

The U.S. is obviously not the only country to ever take action, but it seems to me that in recent decades, we have always been first, where there are others who could have helped that were much closer to the situation(s) but didn't.

Believe me, I am grateful that Britain and German troops are standing by as U.S. allies, but we can all be sure that they too have vested interests in the whole outcome of the situation, which leads me to addressing your point #2.

Just because I live in this country does not mean that I embrace all of its policies, nor should any foreigner kid themselves into thinking that every American does.

I won't deny that America or any other country in existence is self-serving and Bush is at the top of my list of legal thieves, but notice that we are not the only ones, nor is it a concept we created on our own...we did used to be part of your country!

If America IS the greatest nation in the world it is because everyone has said so to a point where everyone believes it, or at least expects it to be out front.
Tell the new kid how great he is and you can get him to do anything for you for as long as you treat him with respect right?
Push the responsibilities off on someone else so that you can stay out of trouble...this has been a concept of mankind ever since money came into play in life.
Personally, I am sitting back and waiting for the "One world, one people" days when we can all play on the same playground without having to worry about who has the shiniest marbles!

I have to go...our puppy is sick and I need to get the place ready for him to be brought home. See you later!


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The best thing about karma is that you create your own.

Pets Need Love Too