16 year old executed in Iran

[Magness]

How can one talk about the problems in Iran specifically or the Middle East in general without recognizing that religon is a core part of the society and recognizing the part that Islam plays in shaping those societies?

While not discussing any religion in specific, it seems that this situation is an excellent example of why religion and politics make dangerous bedfellows. Especially in light of the fact that when religion creeps into politics, it's usually of the fundamentalist persuasion. Excellent sources there TL, thanks for the links.

[Aerich]

Originally posted by Magness: How can one talk about the problems in Iran specifically or the Middle East in general without recognizing that religon is a core part of the society and recognizing the part that Islam plays in shaping those societies?

We can't. We may be able to skirt around the edges and occasionally dip our toes into the water, but cannonballs are out of the question. Maybe if we talk in generalities or come up with a sufficiently confusing veiled analogy... [img]graemlins/blueblink.gif[/img]

[The Hierophant]

Originally posted by Aerich: We can't. We may be able to skirt around the edges and occasionally dip our toes into the water, but cannonballs are out of the question. Maybe if we talk in generalities or come up with a sufficiently confusing veiled analogy... [img]graemlins/blueblink.gif[/img]

Or start a petition to the Z-man and the Chocmeister requesting a relaxation of the moratorium with a big, smoochy promise that we'll be good when discussing religion? [img]smile.gif[/img]
I mean seriously, alot of 'contemporary issues' (the discussion of which is the whole point of this forum, right?) will involve religion in some shape or form. It's unavoidable...

[Aerich]

Do you think that we're capable of discussing religion without it turning nasty? Sure as shooting ( ) someone will misconstrue a post or have their post misconstrued, and then the fireballs will fly.

Maybe it could work if we set out clear limits in a thread about what exactly is to be discussed, (e.g. Iran's society regarding women, or something of the sort) and everyone tries hard not to stray from the topic or plunk down reactionary posts. Opinions, mods?

[Illumina Drathiran'ar]

I don't know... I'd like to think it can be kept under control, but we can't even discuss homosexuality in a civil manner.

[Mouse]

The moratorium on threads whose primary topic is religion was put in place for a good reason.

Firstly, the general position of most of the participants had become so entrenched that further debate was pointless as all that was posted was an increasingly ill-tempered retread/restatement of those positions.

Secondly, the whole process of getting to these entrenched positions unfortunately involved flaming, personal insults, and debates that far too often degenerated into reductio ad absurdum squabbles over words and phrases taken out of context.

For the good of the board as a whole the moratorium was introduced, and as far as I'm concerned, it should stand. This does not mean that any mention of religion as an adjunct to another topic is forbidden, but if religion and the justification of, or opposition to, religious viewpoints becomes the primary focus of a thread, then it's crossed the line.

[Memnoch]

Sorry guys, I'd love to believe you, and I'd like to think that some of you can easily exercise the required amount of self-control, but unfortunately it only takes a few people to lose it in the heat of the moment and ruin it for everyone. I still have memories of what caused us to put this moratorium in the first place - some people here feel VERY strongly about their religious beliefs or lack thereof, and can't help but take personal offence to contrary points of view. I still remember 10-15 page threads of essentially circular discussion by increasingly ill-tempered protagonists, continually trying to "win" the argument for their side. Sometimes people just can't let things go when it comes to religion - they seem to think that they're entitled to enforce their opinions on others, no matter what.

Things have improved somewhat from a few months ago, and I certainly don't believe that anyone here intentionally goes out to cause trouble - but we're still not prepared to take that risk, for the reasons that Mouse stated above. I apologise for sounding cynical, but we've been burned too many times on that front, unfortunately. Try to look at things from our point of view (ie step outside your viewpoint and try and look at these discussions from a neutral perspective) and you'll see where we're coming from.

When we're able to go in here and find out that people are able to self-moderate themselves and conduct their discussions and more importantly their disagreements in a civil manner and have appropriate exit strategies that don't involve flaming, flamebaiting or dissing contrary viewpoints and PREFERABLY involve agreeing to disagree, without feeling stung or feeling or made to feel like you've "lost" the discussion (I've seen this happen quite a few times too from people when other people have tried to exit the discussion) then we will lift the moratorium. Not before.

So the ball's in your court when it comes to lifting this moratorium, really. Thanks guys - I appreciate your understanding with regards to this. [img]smile.gif[/img]

[ 08-25-2004, 10:11 AM: Message edited by: Memnoch ]

[Cerek the Barbaric]

I deeply disagreed with the moratorium on religion and tirelessly requested to have the first moratorium lifted. Unfortunately, Memnoch's stated concerns quickly became a reality and "religious threads" popped up - sometimes for no other purpose than to re-address a previous argument.

There was a time when religious topic could be discussed in a more civil manner here, but that has been a long time ago. Much as I hate to admit it, I believe Memnoch & Mouse are well justified in their caution.

So if you want to discuss religious topics, I suggest doing what I did, and Search for religious forums. Here are two I have found that have good discussions that are well Moderated. There is also a good amount of self-moderation on the board and - generally speaking - opposing views are treated respectfully and the discussions are usually very civil.

Mystic Wicks (Online Pagan Community)

Christian Forums (Online Christian Community)

Both sites offer good areas of discussion for ALL religious views.

[ 08-25-2004, 06:16 AM: Message edited by: Cerek the Barbaric ]

[Cerek the Barbaric]

Now to get back on topic.

My BIGGEST concern regarding this story is that this very same thing could easily happen in Iraq also if the U.S. just "pulls out" and allows the Iraqi's to set up thier own government.

Their are 2-3 very powerful religious sects that have a great deal of influence and it is no stretch of the imagination to believe that one of them could easily become the official "ruling body" if Iraq is left to their own devices.