A society in denial

[Yorick]

Oh, one more thing Illumina, using that definition of yours, DIRECTING is actually an action. You can limit sexual desire, distract it, direct it, give in to it, and fulfil it. That definition supports what I'm saying, not contradicts.

[Yorick]

Originally posted by John D Harris: ]Illum, If you keep "IT" in your pants or your knees together and your mouth shut, you are non-sexual.

"Celibate", is the word.

[Dirty Meg]

If by we defined a persons sexuality by action and not desire we wouldn't have seperate words for celibate and asexual. Someone who doesn't have sex is celibate. Someone who doesn't feel the desire to have sex is asexual.

Originally posted by Yorick: "Celibate", is the word.

That comma shouldn't be there. For does it not say in the ten commandments 'honour thy father, thy mother and thy grammer'.

[Yorick]

Nope. This is what asexual means:

asex·u·al

1 : lacking sex or functional sex organs (asexual plants)
2 a : involving or reproducing by reproductive processes (as cell division, spore formation, fission, or budding) that do not involve the union of individuals or germ cells (asexual reproduction) (an asexual generation) b : produced by asexual reproduction (asexual spores)
3 : devoid of sexuality (an asexual relationship)

This is celibacy:

cel·i·ba·cy

1 : the state of not being married
2 a : abstention from sexual intercourse b : abstention by vow from marriage


An asexual person could have desire, they just wouldn't have the organs to fulfill that desire.

[Yorick]

Originally posted by Dirty Meg: That comma shouldn't be there. For does it not say in the ten commandments 'honour thy father, thy mother and thy grammer'.

It's called poetic license. I wanted a longer pause after that word. It was intended, and I'd put it there again. Try some poetic license on your own work. It'll free your mind.

[Dirty Meg]

Originally posted by Yorick: quote: Originally posted by Dirty Meg: That comma shouldn't be there. For does it not say in the ten commandments 'honour thy father, thy mother and thy grammer'.

It's called poetic license. I wanted a longer pause after that word. It was intended, and I'd put it there again. Try some poetic license on your own work. It'll free your mind. [/QUOTE]I don't want to free my mind. I want to keep somewhere where I know where it is so I can consult it before I start typing. You should try it sometime.

[Yorick]

Why are we distracting the topic from the plight of homosexual palestinians might I add?

Under MY definition, certain Palestinians have commited NO CRIME. I would dare say, under Islamic law, that is the same thing. The ACTION is what is spoken against.

The Torah, the law of Moses, speaks about the action of men sleeping together as with a woman as being a crime, not any desire. It is Jesus, who comes along later and says there's no difference between ones thoughts and ones actions, but this is to highlight we're all guilty of sin in Gods eyes, not to redifine the language.

The question is, what is "guilty" under Islamic law. Shaol Gannons statment reflects what I'm saying. There are people who are guilty of nothing, even under harsh Islamic law.


http://www.al-fatiha.net/pamphlet.html

------------------ Qu'ran: "We also sent Lut (Lot): he said to his people: "Do ye commit lewdness such as no people in creation ever committed before you? For ye practice your lusts on men in preference to women: ye are indeed a people transgressing beyond bounds." Surah VII (Araf), Verses 80-81 "Of all creatures in the world, will ye approach males. And leave those whom Allah (God) has created for you to be your mates? Nay, ye are people transgressing all limits?" Surah XXVI (Shu'araa), Verses 165-166) "If two men among you are guilty of lewdness, punish them both. If they repent and amend, leave them alone: for Allah (God) is Oft-Returning, Most merciful." Surah IV (Nisaa), Verse 16 ------------- Hadiths: "When a man mounts another man, the throne of God shakes" - Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) "Kill the one that is doing it and also kill the one that it is being done to." (in reference to intercourse) - Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) "Cursed are those men who wear women's clothing and those women who wear men's clothing." - Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him ------------------- After hearing about the First International Retreat for GLBT Muslims held in Boston in October of 1998, Imam Talal Eid of the Islamic Center of New England, based in Quincy and Sharon, Massachusetts, USA, was quoted as saying, "This is their life. It's up to them. They are acting against the teaching in Islam. I do not distribute blessing. I'm not in the position to give licenses to people. Nobody has the power to say that is okay. There is nothing I can do except call this person to repent, because he is committing one of the greatest sins in Islam. This is how it is described by the prophet Mohammed. Usually people who do such things don't practice being Muslims. If they do, they are betraying themselves." The Islamic Society of North America's Dr. Muzammil Siddiqi, answering a question posed on homosexuality, says, "Homosexuality is a moral disorder. It is a moral disease, a sin and corruption... No person is born homosexual, just like no one is born a thief, a liar or murderer. People acquire these evil habits due to a lack of proper guidance and education." Attempting to explain why homosexuality is a sin, he says, "There are many reasons why it is forbidden in Islam. Homosexuality is dangerous for the health of the individuals and for the society. It is a main cause of one of the most harmful and fatal diseases. It is disgraceful for both men and women. It degrades a person. Islam teaches that men should be men and women should be women. Homosexuality deprives a man of his manhood and a woman of her womanhood. It is the most un-natural way of life. Homosexuality leads to the destruction of family life." Although mainstream Islam officially condemns homosexuality there is a growing movement of progressive-minded Muslims, especially in the Western world, who see Islam as an evolving religion that must adapt to modern-day society. It is within the movement that Al-Fatiha Foundation hopes to work in order to enlighten the world that Islam is a religion of tolerance and not hate, and that Allah (God) loves His creation, no matter what their sexual orientation might be.

=============================

A person can be a practicing homosexual, and still be a commited Christian receiving Jesus gace. The whole notion of Jesus grace is that once you accept it, you are forgiven of any and every sin: past, present, future; intentional, nonintentional, sins of omission, sins of comission.

The old testament may condemn it, but Jesus has forgiven it.

However, I don't see how you could be a practicing homosexual, AND commited Muslim, unless you distort or ignore the applicable teachings, because Islam IS a religion where your actions define you. A "good muslim" is one who sticks to the path.

Very problematic. That's why I don't see a solution, short of either a massive reformation, or mass conversion to the Christian message of:

"All is permissible, but not all is beneficial"

[ 08-12-2004, 11:57 AM: Message edited by: Yorick ]

[Yorick]

Originally posted by Dirty Meg: quote: Originally posted by Yorick: quote: Originally posted by Dirty Meg: That comma shouldn't be there. For does it not say in the ten commandments 'honour thy father, thy mother and thy grammer'.

It's called poetic license. I wanted a longer pause after that word. It was intended, and I'd put it there again. Try some poetic license on your own work. It'll free your mind. [/QUOTE]I don't want to free my mind. I want to keep somewhere where I know where it is so I can consult it before I start typing. You should try it sometime. [/QUOTE]Oh I do. It's called POETIC LICENSE. Once you do poetry, you find gramma works for you, not you for it. I intended the pause. That's why I used it.... as I will use other tools to recreate how I..... speak. It's all communication. Again. Try freeing your mind a little. You're all hung up about the little thing, and ignoring the freedom of expression possible.

[ 08-12-2004, 11:52 AM: Message edited by: Yorick ]