Bill Cosby blasts the black community

[Larry_OHF]

Cosby for President!

[johnny]

Originally posted by Larry_OHF: Cosby for President!

Then all Americans will get indigestion from jellow pudding.

[Gangrell]

Originally posted by The Hierophant: quote: Originally posted by Gangrell: An appealing outlook Hiero, but change won't happen.

My good man, say not such things! [img]smile.gif[/img] You defeat yourself before you even try.

It's just the way people are that prevents them from taking that step forward in bettering themselves or thinking in a more positive way. The best we can do is just work at it as individuals, but when involved in the masses, people are still idiots.

Exactly! Cultural progress stems from the individual and the individual alone. 'The masses' are, afterall, merely a collection of individuals joined in mutual mentality. All it takes is one catalyst, one voice of dissent within the ranks of the mob, spoken loudly and clearly enough, and the direction of an entire society can change. Of course there will be frustrations, of course there will be vastly contrasting views among individuals as to how the world should and shouldn't be, but so what? More power to diversity!
Decide what your morals are, and put them into practice. If you stand firm by your own code you have nothing to fear in the pressure and persecution from others. In the end, when all is said and done and you're looking back on your life from its twilight moments, you'll be all the happier for knowing that you lived as you thought you should have.

Never say never! You have more power than that! Give yourself some credit! [img]smile.gif[/img] [/QUOTE]Alright, let me rephrase that a little bit. Yes, I believe people can change, but I also believe it will be many years into the future before it does. When it does happen, it would have required a lot of time and effort being put into it. Trust me Hiero, like you, I try to live life as best as I can, push aside any negative aspect of it, but when it comes down to it, I can't deny what I see. So, I'm going to tell you how I see it, so please keep in mind I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm right or vis versa and I'm not trying to be an asshole about it but this is my arguement.

Hiero, you said all it takes is that one person to stand out and speak their mind and with their influence, that idealogy can also spread through the masses. I agree with that, but then again I don't. I think the only way a person will ever change is if they have the will power and motivation to take a step back and see how bad their lives really are. But most of the time, you cannot just roll a few words off your tongue to change the way a person has lived for so many years.

Bill Cosby said that rap music, in essense, influences how children act until they reach adulthood and it even influences how adults act. I know people like this, these people are influenced by rap music, a bank robbery with lyrics that has only three things in it; sex, violence, and drugs. Now this has been around for over 15 years and following along with what it has said, a person is really not likely to look at what they're doing with regret and drop this as if it were a bad habit.

If nothing else, people are just outrageously stubborn Hiero. You look at people today, and they cry and moan about something in the constitution, that their children are supposedly having a gun put to their head to sing about Santa Claus because their parents don't believe in God. These are the people that I know, people I've read about and I don't know how things are in New Zealand, but over here, just a bit harder to get through a person's skull.

I think there is only one way to influence a mob or whole groups of people, and it's not through the groups themselves, it's through the people one by one. Not by the masses because there's too much confusion, influence individuals, then when enough are, then they become the masses.

I do not take away credit where it is due, I give myself credit and I do give all my friends credit, but it's just that somethings can and can't happen, it's just the way it is. But if Bill Cosby is that motivational speaker that can change lives with his words, I will admit that I am wrong and will appreciate what he's doing for the community.

I think Cosby said what no white guy would ever be allowed to say. He hit the subject square on and put the emphasis for the problems where they belong. I gave him a thumbs up when I heard about it a while ago.

[Yorick]

Originally posted by The Hierophant: I think he makes some good points. Especially in that his messages can apply just as much to squanderous people of any particular skin pigmentation. Wasted opportunities are not genetics-specific. However I will admit that I cringe whenever I hear the terms 'black people' or 'white people' etc... how about just plain old 'people', without the skin-colour prefix?

Because Blacks have been an oppressed minority. You and I can be colourblind in America because we are part of the majority. And our European race was the oppressor. Much harder for a Black to forget 250 or so years of the horrific reality slavery was.

I once had an illuminating conversation with a Black girl who opened my eyes to the importance of not taking away Blacks right to self identity, by removing references to skin colour.

The importance is to accept, forgive, understand and celebrate DIFFERENCE, not simply not see those differences. Colourblindness is not the answer. Enjoying the rainbow is.

[Yorick]

Hierophant, I'm using the "America" scenario, because Cosby is an American speaking to Americans, while you're in Aotearoa.

[Yorick]

Originally posted by Gangrell: [An appealing outlook Hiero, but change won't happen.

Actually the one certainty in life is that nothing is certain. Meaning that change is an inevitability. People could have suggested slavery would never end, or that the Cold War would go on forever, or that feudalism just "is". Change WILL occur, Cosby is trying to give it a push in a positive direction within his lifetime.

[Gangrell]

Oh Yorick... *points up to most recent post*

[John D Harris]

Originally posted by Yorick: quote: Originally posted by The Hierophant: I think he makes some good points. Especially in that his messages can apply just as much to squanderous people of any particular skin pigmentation. Wasted opportunities are not genetics-specific. However I will admit that I cringe whenever I hear the terms 'black people' or 'white people' etc... how about just plain old 'people', without the skin-colour prefix?

Because Blacks have been an oppressed minority. You and I can be colourblind in America because we are part of the majority. And our European race was the oppressor. Much harder for a Black to forget 250 or so years of the horrific reality slavery was.

I once had an illuminating conversation with a Black girl who opened my eyes to the importance of not taking away Blacks right to self identity, by removing references to skin colour.

The importance is to accept, forgive, understand and celebrate DIFFERENCE, not simply not see those differences. Colourblindness is not the answer. Enjoying the rainbow is. [/QUOTE]It has been nearly 40 since the civil rights bills were passed, 40 Years, the VAST majority of people don't give a RAT'S REAR-END about anybody's skin color. They care if a person will do what they are supossed to do. This indentiy stuff is crap, it is an IMO attempt to remain a victim and gather as much pity for one's self and/or group as they can, it serves no other purpose.

"There is neither Jew, nor Greek, Male, nor Female, Slave, nor Free." Sounds like colorblindness to me.

****************Warning****************
Anybody attempting to even kinda sorta imply I'm racist, because of what I've writen, and the location I live in. You had better think twice, I'm nearly 43 years old and I am a Southerner, who his entire life has had to deal with people assuming that because I'm from the south, I'm racist. I'll land on anyone with both feet and stomp them into the ground, I got nearly 43 fighting this fight, and I'm damn good at it.

[Yorick]

Originally posted by John D Harris: [QBIt has been nearly 40 since the civil rights bills were passed, 40 Years, the VAST majority of people don't give a RAT'S REAR-END about anybody's skin color. They care if a person will do what they are supossed to do. This indentiy stuff is crap, [/QB]

Well of course. Blacks are only 12 - 15% of the US population aren't they? Of course the "vast majority" don't care about self identity. I think the least Europeans can do is accept the self identity issue. Considering African Americans' self identity was stolen from them when taken from Africa, and again in the second migration into the interior, and trampled underfoot and repressed for the next 250 years. I think the self identity issue means a lot more to them than it does you or anyone else who's culture, family, language traditions and history wasn't taken from them. I repeat, it is EASY for a European to rail on about being colourblind and it all being in the past.

40 years is one generation John. That's nothing. I'm reading a book at the moment called "Remembering Slavery" that includes a CD of audio recordings of interviews with the last living ex-slaves still alive in the 1930s. As it stands now, America has had slaves longer than it has NOT. How can you write it off? Undermine the enormous psychological implications? For better and for worse, the country was built on it. It's reaping the economic benefits, as well as the social/foundational ills.

And no I don't think you're racist.

As for "no Jew/Greek", this is the context of that:

Galatians 3:26-29 You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus, for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise. Colossians 3:11 Here there is no Greek or Jew, circumcised or uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave or free, but Christ is all, and is in all.

It's referring to the body of believers in Jesus. That the unity we have in Christ outweighs any temporal divisions and differences.

In other parts the bible clearly celebrates the myriad peoples following Jesus -

Revelation 5:9 "You are worthy to take the scroll and to open its seals, because you were slain, and with your blood you purchased men for God from every tribe and language and people and nation." Revelation 7:9 After this I looked and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and in front of the Lamb.

Tolerance is accepting that which is different, or difficult to accept. That which is alien, odd, strange, or combats ones current mode of behaviour, life or belief. Tolerance is not incorporation or absorbtion. Tolerance recognises difference and loves, frees, allows and/or celebrates it.

[ 07-03-2004, 03:47 AM: Message edited by: Yorick ]