German & French Conscription

[Timber Loftis]

it's not about developing cannon fodder soldiers. It's about insisting that every citizen have some basic competence and training -- and "knocking the chip off the shoulder" of 20 year olds. Besides, most of our lardass kids could use a good boot camp tour to get their bodies back in shape.

[ 05-20-2004, 04:57 PM: Message edited by: Timber Loftis ]

[RoSs_bg2_rox]

yeh but some peoples bodies are passed redemption, how the hell must they feel having to do all that excercise.

Btw does anybody know what happens to people who refuse to do their service? (I know this will vary between country to country)

[ 05-20-2004, 05:02 PM: Message edited by: RoSs_bg2_rox ]

[Skunk]

Originally posted by johnny: Tell that to the Chinese.

A massive army means nothing if you don't rule the sky. And the army doesn't count at all if you have nuclear weapons at your disposal - beyond guarding the warheads that is.

Originally posted by Timber Loftis: it's not about developing cannon fodder soldiers. It's about insisting that every citizen have some basic competence and training -- and "knocking the chip off the shoulder" of 20 year olds. Besides, most of our lardass kids could use a good boot camp tour to get their bodies back in shape.

Yep - but that could be achieved via community service. Nothing would teach a rich kid about the *real* hardship in his own country than being forced to wipe the butt of an old person that's too old to take care of business himself, or working in a soup kitchin to understand what 'social problems' are all about. What's more, the lesson is financially good value for the state.

Better to teach kids how to look after their fellow citizens and understand the lower rungs of society than to teach 'em how to use a gun. Leave the army to the professionals and get the kids involved in their communities instead.

[Khazadman Risen]

I'm opposed to any kind of compulsory service. Most of them turn out to be a bunch of lazy punks who don't want to be there. And you're right Skunk. It takes too long to train people in the fields required to run a modern military.

[Chewbacca]

I pay taxes, that's a fair contribution and the only compulsory "service" I will tolerate. Any other service I make to society is as it should be in a Nation built upon the principles of freedom and liberty- completely voluntary.

[Timber Loftis]

Sorry, guys, but I roundly disagree. I think conscription is a good thing for a society. I will admit that a "civil service" side is an acceptable alternative, Skunk.

[Faceman]

I've been drafted for voluntary service this week, and I'm starting as a paramedic on the 1st of July. I actually think it's a brilliant idea because it forces people to deal with the real life instead of isolating themselves.
However there is one major flaw: MONEY!
I'm currently attending university and working part-time for about 500EUR/month.
This "civil service" year I will work full-time and earn 180EUR/month, food provided at the institution.
If I wasn't in the lucky situation that my mother owns the flat I'm living in and pays the power bill, I could start living under a bridge.

[RoSs_bg2_rox]

yeh thats the thing, that just totally sucks, they should have to match your current pay or something. Also I think Chewbacca has hit the nail on the head, if you pay taxes surely that is enough of a contribution, as you are taking your share in running the country. (I know that is a bit exagerated but that is really what it boils down too)

[Skunk]

Originally posted by RoSs_bg2_rox: yeh thats the thing, that just totally sucks, they should have to match your current pay or something. Also I think Chewbacca has hit the nail on the head, if you pay taxes surely that is enough of a contribution, as you are taking your share in running the country. (I know that is a bit exagerated but that is really what it boils down too)

The problem is that not everyone pays their taxes; quite a large number of kids get their 'life lessons' from gang banging and 'dead end' jobs because they have no real idea of how to put their life and skills to use productively.

Again, I would see it as the last year of 'compulsory education', rather than as a 'contribution' to sociey. Unless of course, we see school education as a form of 'slave labour'.

[promethius9594]

all this contention comes from a predominantly american perspective... that freedom is free, all you have to do is pay taxes and vote. i think, living here in germany, that the system is great. i have never heard the german soldiers complain about the duty... though i pass them nearly every day as i go to work on the american base (which they guard for us).

they dont have very many fat people here... life is a bit more lean than that, so the issues of overweight kids not making it through boot camp is not as drastic as would be in the united states. and their troops are not lazy, they are actually well trained and attentive to their jobs.

as to civil service, they do work jobs other than general military duty. the military can be employed to build houses, repair roads, serve food, and a plethora of other things as well. believe me, the german young men get a feel for duty and honor that the youth miss out on in the US.

there are things i dont like about living in germany, but there are many things which are also better in ways too. one of those things is the incredible sense of pride, duty, and honor which seems to be shared by all the germans. it makes me feel much safer knowing that my neighbors all have pride in their country and in themselves without needing to bring others down