God Made Me Do It

[pritchke]

"deeply religious????"

You mean "deeply insane", Why do you think these things only happen to religious people? One day it could happen to you. A chemical imbalance, and a quick treatment may actually do you good as it would cause you to be embarrassed after remembering some of the foolish things you did, then you may have to humble yourself for condemning people who are insane and just need help. Problem with insane people they are pretty much unpredictable. I feel sorry for the children, but I also feel sorry for that mother. When they find the correct medication to place her on, to help her brain function properly she will be devastated. She may not remember killing them (insane people tend to forget many things they do and say, after there mind is working correctly again)but they will bew gone and she will have questions. If you never had a family member who had a chemical imbalance before I ask you not to judge them out of your ignorance because you really have no right to condemn them because of there condition. One day something similar may happen to you then you may be judged the same way.

[ 04-05-2004, 11:03 AM: Message edited by: pritchke ]

[Yorick]

Originally posted by Skunk: But the verdict sends an odd statement to the world, does it not? You are not insane if you believe in god, but you are insane if you think that he talks to you...

Again.... millions of people, millions of Americans even, "think God talks to them". The insanity was in the thought process - that she believed she should kill her children.

Amongst those who hear Gods "voice" regularly, there is the commonly known factor of human interpretation.

Example. God tells you that your CD collection has become too much of a priority in your life. A god that you've become attached to, so to speak. So you get the impression he wants you to deprioritise it, and put Him, relationships and other things first.

The person can INTERPRET that to mean they should throw away their CD collection, sell their CD collection, burn it, give it away, or simply not spend as much time or thought energy on it.

Interpretation. A sane person, would check their interpretation of Gods will with others.

"I feel like God wants me to marry this person today, should I?"
- "Nah mate. He wants you to love them, and perhaps start thinking about marrying them in a few years"

"I feel like God wants me to chop off my right hand"
- "Nah mate, he wants you to stop doing the damage your right hand was causing... like punching people in the face"

"I feel like God wants me to kill my children"
- Nah mate, he wants you to release your children, and not own them. They're not your property. Let any suffocating love die, and love them with freedom."

The insanity was in her interpretation of his voice. Clearly, if she's following the God of the bible, killing her kids is AGAINST God's will.
"I

Yorick took the words right out of my mouth.

[Illumina Drathiran'ar]

"Why is it that when we talk to God we're praying, but when God talks to us we're schizophrenic?"
-Lily Tomlin

I've heard some more cynical people say that religion is a cause of death and murder and hate. I disagree. It's an *excuse* for all of those things.
Ah well...

[Azred]

note: this post is a little lengthy, but please bear with me.

Originally posted by Yorick: Azred, A "deeply religious person" as you put it, if Christian, would be reading the WORD of God, so that if they think that they hear God tell them something, they can crossreference it against the bible. They can also, check with their pastor, and see if he's hearing the same word of God for their life. Those two elements - reading the bible, and having a relationship with a Pastor, are what prevents wierd and destructive behaviour like this. You misunderstand me a little. I used "deeply religious" in quotation marks to denote sarcasm about the fact that this woman used religion as the smokescreen to hide her insanity. As far as checking with her pastor, however, this woman's pastor was also her brother (or brother-in-law), so he wasn't very likely to upset her by differing with her too much or correcting her too often. So please, before tarring all of us who have faith, consider the abberation factor. How many people in America claim to know God? How many believe God tells them to kill their children? I am not tarring an entire group of people, only this one crazy woman. The other aspect your ignoring is that she's American. I could quite easily slander your people and say "that's typical American lunatic violence. When will people realise that Americans left to their own devices are violent nutcases". Does that help? No, it wouldn't help...which is why you normally don't engage in such behavior. Consider also she's a mother. We could make slurring comments about women too. That they are more emotional, and especially with post natal depression and periods, more prone to lunacy like this. There are millions of women who suffer from post partum depression but don't commit acts of violence against their own children. Thank goodness that menstrual cycles don't lead to violence, or we'd all be in trouble. Are any correct? Can we generalise about people of faith, Americans or women? C'mon Azred. Her defense didn't wash. She was found to be insane and will spend 40 odd years in an asylum. If that's the jury's verdict that's good enough for me. Which is why I said that "all generalizations are bad" earlier. I don't make generalizations about any group of people based on the actions of one person. The insanity was in her interpretation of his voice. Clearly, if she's following the God of the bible, killing her kids is AGAINST God's will. This aspect was apparently not touched upon in the trial despite the fact that your analysis is correct. Like I said, how did she know that it was indeed God telling her to do anything?

Originally posted by Skunk: But the verdict sends an odd statement to the world, does it not? You are not insane if you believe in god, but you are insane if you think that he talks to you...

It's the justice system...it isn't supposed to make sense. [img]graemlins/beigesmilewinkgrin.gif[/img]

Originally posted by pritchke: "deeply religious????" You mean "deeply insane", Why do you think these things only happen to religious people? One day it could happen to you. A chemical imbalance, and a quick treatment may actually do you good as it would cause you to be embarrassed after remembering some of the foolish things you did, then you may have to humble yourself for condemning people who are insane and just need help. Problem with insane people they are pretty much unpredictable. I feel sorry for the children, but I also feel sorry for that mother. When they find the correct medication to place her on, to help her brain function properly she will be devastated. She may not remember killing them (insane people tend to forget many things they do and say, after there mind is working correctly again)but they will bew gone and she will have questions. If you never had a family member who had a chemical imbalance before I ask you not to judge them out of your ignorance because you really have no right to condemn them because of there condition. One day something similar may happen to you then you may be judged the same way.

I don't think these things happen to only religious people, but a majority of recent cases of maternal pedicide have involved stay-at-home mothers who happen to be highly involved in a church with a supposedly strong support network. I don't make any moral judgements about this; I am merely stating facts.
On the one hand, I am already clinically insane and have to take daily doses of three psychoactive medications just to maintain a tenuous grip on reality. Just ask Belle. [img]graemlins/1dizzy.gif[/img] On the other hand, I don't humble myself for anyone; since I can't be perfect, I have decided that personal pride will be my character flaw. [img]graemlins/petard.gif[/img]
I lived with someone who was insane--severely agoraphobic (social anxiety disorder) with passive-agressive overtones--so I am intimately familiar with insanity and unpredictability in the home. Thus, I don't judge anyone out of ignorance; indeed, I don't do anything out of ignorance. Finally, other people's judgements of me are, all things considered, irrelevant.

But enough about me. [img]graemlins/petard.gif[/img]

On the topic of home schooling...personally I would love to have the ability to home-school TJ because we could do a much better job than the public school system. However, Belle and I decided that there are social aspects taught by being in a public school that TJ would not be able to learn at home, which is why we decided against home-schooling him, even if we had the resources to do so.
Part of the reason that cases like Andrea Yates and Deanna Laney happens is because they are around their children 24 hours a day--that is more than enough to drive anyone crazy! My parents looked forward to summer as a time for my brothers an I to be far away at our grandmother's houses; similarly, we look forward to a TJ-less summer, which gives both us and him a break.
What makes cases like this scary is that many of the women in our city are our age--early 30s--and have anywhere from 3 to 5 children with one on the way. They home-school these kids (not always efficiently, mind you) and never get a break from having to look after multiple helpless people because their kids are all 1.5 years apart. It is only a matter of time before one of them snaps and makes the nightly news. *sigh*

[Yorick]

Originally posted by Azred: note: this post is a little lengthy, but please bear with me. As far as checking with her pastor, however, this woman's pastor was also her brother (or brother-in-law), so he wasn't very likely to upset her by differing with her too much or correcting her too often.

Thanks for your post Azred, but I had to pull you up on this, as it's the complete opposite of normal scenarios within Churches. Families of Pastors usually get the strongest clarifying advice. If you love someone, why would you let them walk in what you perceive to be error? A stranger is one who you'de be more careful not to upset.

This is true for everyday. Would you tell a complete stranger advice? How much more advice would you give someone you love? Or if their actions effect you? The brother would have loved the children himself.

[Azred]

I agree--churches are usually really good with regards to members helping one another. Since I wasn't there I can't really comment about what her brother/pastor was telling Ms. Laney, but it is sad that whatever was said wasn't enough to prevent a tragedy. *sigh*

[Yorick]

Agreed.