Dutch teacher killed in shooting

[johnny]

Originally posted by Link: I saw the same thing on the news today johnny, and I can't believe those kids justify the murder, just because he was singled out! Who cares! Most of the times it IS you who started it all, not the teacher! Maybe I ought to go to the Hague to tell them in their face they should have more respect for the dead than they have right now. Or AT LEAST show regret instead of encouragement.

Don't do it, you'll get shot in the head.

[Melusine]

Originally posted by johnny: Must be some kind of Turkish cultural thing

Bollocks mate, and you know it. Or at least I hope you do... either way it was unnecessary and definitely won't contribute to a better mutual understanding and tolerance between cultures, which is what we need right now. I know you a little by now and I know where you're coming from man, but it just isn't helping to peg this as being caused by different (read Islamic) culture. The shooters in America, Australia and Germany that I heard about weren't Turkish.
Check the "Voorkant" frontpage of today's Volkskrant: mini-interviews with schoolkids of all cultures expressing their dismay. Check the site of the D66 party in Zoetermeer: several people with Arabic names expressing sincerest condolances. The Terra College, where the shooting happened, is largely a "black school", and all the children I've seen interviewed so far were shocked and disgusted by the shooting.
This is just a case of a bad apple in the bunch, could have been anyone. A sign of the times, certainly, but nothing to do with his ethnicity or "culture".
And yeah, yeah, it's a lot of text to devote to just one "innocent remark" of yours; I just can't stand to see misunderstandings, distrust and hatred arising out of such things, and they do, all the time.

[johnny]

It's not bollocks, and you know it. In the Turkish culture there is something as honor, if someone's honor is violated they are allowed to take drastic measures, like murder. This problem in cultural differences has been discussed over and over here in the Netherlands, whether the person who commits a crime if his honor is violated should be judged according to Islamic laws or not. Now THAT'S bollocks for you there.

I know the kid was born and raised in Den Haag, but perhaps he was raised to his old man's standards. The standards that say you should take action if someone violates your honor and go on a personal vendetta or something. Albanians have that same way of thinking, though i'm not sure if they're Islamic overthere.

But the fact remains that some elements in their society have that way of dealing with problems, this might be such a thing, and needs extra attention during the trial, cause that kind of culture doesn't belong here.

[ 01-16-2004, 10:28 PM: Message edited by: johnny ]

[Grojlach]

Meanwhile, our moronic Prime Minister is doing ye olde "videogames are violent and immoral" routine as a possible cause of all this.

[Skunk]

Originally posted by johnny: It's not bollocks, and you know it. In the Turkish culture there is something as honor, if someone's honor is violated they are allowed to take drastic measures, like murder. This problem in cultural differences has been discussed over and over here in the Netherlands, whether the person who commits a crime if his honor is violated should be judged according to Islamic laws or not. Now THAT'S bollocks for you there. I know the kid was born and raised in Den Haag, but perhaps he was raised to his old man's standards. The standards that say you should take action if someone violates your honor and go on a personal vendetta or something. Albanians have that same way of thinking, though i'm not sure if they're Islamic overthere. But the fact remains that some elements in their society have that way of dealing with problems, this might be such a thing, and needs extra attention during the trial, cause that kind of culture doesn't belong here.

I think that this was more about 'street honour' than anything else. This kid's father is a criminal (and in gaol) and the son is showing every sign of following in his father's footsteps. We know that he was also a drug dealer (and according to the other kids, he was always rolling in cash - despite his poor background) and that was never shy of showing of 'big' he was to others or using violence to get his way. Hence the reason why the deputy head (who he shot) was attempting to get him expelled (for constantly beating up other kids, and threatening both teachers and cleaning staff alike with violence).

This is a result of 'gang' culture, where 'face' is everything. You can find the same behaviour in gangs across the US and UK in black and white individuals of little faith in any religion.

[ 01-17-2004, 11:58 AM: Message edited by: Skunk ]

[WOLFGIR]

This is saddening, seems that more and more countries have a huge problem with respect.
Respect for each others lives and feelings.

Respect is never typed FEAR.

We have had an increase in gun related crimes here in sweden at large, both by immigrants and typical swedes. But then again we have the poorest middle class in europe right now and the social structure that was o so socialistic and caring is more akin to that of US a few years back.

Insecurity and and a lessenedqulaity of wealthfare makes more poor and desperate people and poor and desperate people are always more close to do something stupid then thoose that are not.

*sigh*

[philip]

Another teacher has just been stuck down today on another school He's said to be in critical condition. The When is the madness going to end

edit: Dutch link to the story

On the subject of the shot teacher, today there was in the paper the murderer said he felt like he had screwed his and the teacher's life. Damm right he is and I hope he'll pay for it. I certainly hope not this is seen as a condition that makes the situation less (don't know the proper word for that) and he'll get tried as a adult, which he should be.

[ 01-23-2004, 01:39 PM: Message edited by: philip ]