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#11 | |
40th Level Warrior
![]() Join Date: July 11, 2002
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 11,916
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Quote:
My wife's coworkers are likely the only attorneys I know who don't care about current events, don't read, have never encountered philosophy, and never watch the news. They slacked in law school and slack at work. Obviously, they have untapped ability. Had they had to work like the rest of us, they may be better off for their efforts. They would be more learned (yes, smarter), more aware, and would probably enjoy life a bit more. They would pass on more of these traits to their kids, and their kids would like "ask" you things rather say things like "I be axe-ing you dis" (yes, it's true, exact quote). Look, we know that welfare creates a treadmill that hampers families for multiple generations. AA is exactly like welfare -- it's a dole. Accordingly, it will create long-term problems for the community as the community falls into this whole Entitlement philosophy. |
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#12 | ||||
Zartan
![]() Join Date: July 18, 2001
Location: America, On The Beautiful Earth
Age: 51
Posts: 5,373
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That is when whites become the minority, they could use the very same method to insure they get a fair shot. Works both ways. Of course when we have finally and definitely gotten past race in how we judge people then it will be a none issue. Quote:
"If you have a racist friend, now is the time now is the time for that friendship to end." Quote:
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This is the reasoning I started this thread out with, even though it may not be perfect, I think some critics of AA exagerate its flaws with out comprehensive facts to back up the hype. I CAN respectfully see why people take issue with it.
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#13 | |
Zartan
![]() Join Date: July 18, 2001
Location: America, On The Beautiful Earth
Age: 51
Posts: 5,373
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Quote:
My wife's coworkers are likely the only attorneys I know who don't care about current events, don't read, have never encountered philosophy, and never watch the news. They slacked in law school and slack at work. Obviously, they have untapped ability. Had they had to work like the rest of us, they may be better off for their efforts. They would be more learned (yes, smarter), more aware, and would probably enjoy life a bit more. They would pass on more of these traits to their kids, and their kids would like "ask" you things rather say things like "I be axe-ing you dis" (yes, it's true, exact quote). Look, we know that welfare creates a treadmill that hampers families for multiple generations. AA is exactly like welfare -- it's a dole. Accordingly, it will create long-term problems for the community as the community falls into this whole Entitlement philosophy. [/QUOTE]Alright, this is not overstating the issue and reveals an exact flaw that is inherent in the idea of giving a man to fish rather than showing him how to do it. Ideally AA would not be the former and comes from the idea of the latter. It should be an enabling device that says if you do the work and excel, no racist can keep you from the job/school training you are equally entitled to to do. I guess the question is: How do we keep the safegaurd, make it an enabler, but not make it a self-defeating entitlement?
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#14 |
40th Level Warrior
![]() Join Date: July 11, 2002
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 11,916
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Simple. Get rid of AA, yet keep the anti-discrimination rules. Getting rid of AA programs won't change the Civil Rights Act.
If you must insist on AA, keep in MINIMAL. I mean MINIMAL. And only for a short while longer. And, ditch programs that lead to an entitlement philosophy. Rather than giving minorities an easy route into college and a job, give them opportunities in schools. Require that state grants, be they jobwise, moneywise, or otherwise, won't be given to the best minority student -- but rather the best minority student who can meed X, Y, and Z standards. Once a school gets 0 out of a possible 10 scholarships one year, it'll get its ass in line. Remember, though, you cannot stop the private sources of funding -- such as the UNCF and the NAACP. No way to keep a private group from discriminating. It's their money, and they can do as they please with it. [ 09-26-2003, 06:07 PM: Message edited by: Timber Loftis ] |
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#15 | |
Zartan
![]() Join Date: July 18, 2001
Location: America, On The Beautiful Earth
Age: 51
Posts: 5,373
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Quote:
AA does have the benifit of being preventative. AA creates diversity, which I think is the best preventative measure for a future without discrimination. I do agree, from thinking of this discussion mind you, that AA needs to be an enabling device, not one like welfare entitlement. I hadn't thought of it in those terms before. Thanks for the discussion! [img]smile.gif[/img]
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#16 |
Banned User
Join Date: September 3, 2001
Location: Amsterdam, The Netherlands
Age: 63
Posts: 1,463
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Racial discrimination is racial discrimination - don't wrap it up in cutesy phrases like "affirmative action" - call it what it is, racial discrimination.
Is there anywhere else in the world where such practices are legal? |
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#17 | |
Zartan
![]() Join Date: July 18, 2001
Location: America, On The Beautiful Earth
Age: 51
Posts: 5,373
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Quote:
How else do you create a racially intergrated society from the ashes of one that was sharply segregated?
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#18 |
Drow Priestess
![]() Join Date: March 13, 2001
Location: a hidden sanctorum high above the metroplex
Age: 55
Posts: 4,037
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While working for the TX-DOT Area Laboratory in Denton with two black co-workers one permanent state job became open. Despite my education (double major in chemistry and mathematics), the fact that I had worked in laboratory settings before, and that I had already been at the job longer than one other candidate I didn't get the job. I had more education, more experience, and a better overall job performance review, so why did he get the position? [img]graemlins/1ponder.gif[/img]
In short, all I need to know of "Affirmative Action" is that race does matter! It sure as heck isn't about "finding the best person for the job" or any of that nice-sounding crap. [img]graemlins/idontagreeatall.gif[/img] I know that supporters say that Affirmative Action isn't a quota system, but it has the appearance of being a quota. Affirmative Action hurts everyone. edit: by the way...if you can afford to attend SMU you don't need a discount! [ 09-27-2003, 02:33 AM: Message edited by: Azred ]
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Everything may be explained by a conspiracy theory. All conspiracy theories are true. No matter how thinly you slice it, it's still bologna. |
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#19 | |
Zartan
![]() Join Date: July 18, 2001
Location: America, On The Beautiful Earth
Age: 51
Posts: 5,373
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So we get rid of Afirmative action, right, since it only benifits minorities, correct?
I found this nice little pro-AA statement that helps put giving preference to citizens in different perspective. Source-“Angry White Guys For Affirmative Action” Quote:
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#20 | |
Zartan
![]() Join Date: July 18, 2001
Location: America, On The Beautiful Earth
Age: 51
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Quote:
You obviously perceive that AA has hurt you since someone else got the job you referred to, whether thats the case or not, there is no need to take it out on the many people who do indeed get ahead in life because of having one preferred status or another by such a blanket statement. [ 09-27-2003, 03:11 AM: Message edited by: Chewbacca ]
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