How Are Human Monsters Made?

[WillowIX]

Originally posted by Melusine: HELLOOOO PEOPLE!!! Timeout... LadyZ was not asking for another pro-death/anti-death debate, if I'm not mistaken. If you would like to have another of those, maybe someone could start a new thread? *snip*

Aww Moiraine, can't we? Pweese?

Seriously, I know some things that definitely can cause this.

A) Drug abuse, especially "heavy" drugs such as LSD and alcohol. If they destroy the right, or in this case wrong, part of the brain control over instincts is lost. And after all, humans are animals with a killing instinct. Let that instinct rule and you will get a killer.
B) Genetaics. I know at least one gene has been found that promotes violence. I'll see if I can dig up an article about this. It's a quite old finding.
C) Errors during the cerebellar organization. If the brain does not develop correctly there is bound to be errors.

I'm bound to believe that this kinds of humans have some bodily disfunction. Answers will come when we are able to screen the entire human genome for errors. When it comes to environmental factors such as education etc I'm not sure what to believe. Each finding contradicts another.

[johnny]

Originally posted by Faceman: What would you accomplish in killing him? It's clear that he should be out of the picture but that can be done with a real life sentence too. What other good would his killing do? Give me one reason other than "satisfaction" what good would be accomplished by executing him.

Taxmoney ?

[Melusine]

Originally posted by WillowIX: Aww Moiraine, can't we? Pweese?

You'd have to ask her. I'm Melusine. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

And no, we can't.
Finally an interesting discussion and we'd have to bring out the old pro death anti death thing again which no one will ever agree on? Nuh-uh. no thanks. [img]graemlins/idontagreeatall.gif[/img] We've had that debate a million times over on IW and I'm sure if Wendy wanted us to discuss capital punishment in her thread she would have written a different opening post.

Originally posted by Faceman: What would you accomplish in killing him? It's clear that he should be out of the picture but that can be done with a real life sentence too. What other good would his killing do? Give me one reason other than "satisfaction" what good would be accomplished by executing him.

Well lets see. We save the cost of feeding him for 60 years.
We save the cost of providing him cable television for the rest of his life.
We save the cost of full medical and dental coverage for the rest of his life
We save the cost of 24 hour 7 days a week security guard detail for him for the rest of his life.
We save the expense of providing air conditioning for him for the rest of his life.
We save the cost of providing him with educational,entertainment and recreational facilities for him for the rest of his life.

And we make all those resources available for those who can actually be helped and who want to be helped.

If this man escapes and kills again, then it is the fault of those who kept him alive rather than safegaurding society. It is upon their heads if he commits another murder....in or out of prison.

Originally posted by WillowIX: quote: Originally posted by Melusine: HELLOOOO PEOPLE!!! Timeout... LadyZ was not asking for another pro-death/anti-death debate, if I'm not mistaken. If you would like to have another of those, maybe someone could start a new thread? *snip*

Aww Moiraine, can't we? Pweese?

Seriously, I know some things that definitely can cause this.

A) Drug abuse, especially "heavy" drugs such as LSD and alcohol. If they destroy the right, or in this case wrong, part of the brain control over instincts is lost. And after all, humans are animals with a killing instinct. Let that instinct rule and you will get a killer.
B) Genetaics. I know at least one gene has been found that promotes violence. I'll see if I can dig up an article about this. It's a quite old finding.
C) Errors during the cerebellar organization. If the brain does not develop correctly there is bound to be errors.

I'm bound to believe that this kinds of humans have some bodily disfunction. Answers will come when we are able to screen the entire human genome for errors. When it comes to environmental factors such as education etc I'm not sure what to believe. Each finding contradicts another. [/QUOTE]
So perhaps if we disect him and study his brain, perhaps we could come up with new ways to treat such problems?

I don't mind using killers for research. Especially if it helps catch future killers before they commit an atrocity.

[Timber Loftis]

Originally posted by antryg: I really resent lawyers using such a defense. So many people suffer from the same problems/combination of problems and do not act out in such a horrible manner.

What you may fail to realize is that for the lawyer, it is nearly absolute malpractice to NOT try to use every possible defense in a murder-one case. The prisoner sitting in jail will have years to drag his lawyer through court on "ineffective counsel" motions -- while you and everyone else will only whine about it. Sorry, it's a no-brainer for one practicing the profession. You don't like it -- take it up with the legislature. I will back you all the way.

Originally posted by Timber Loftis: What you may fail to realize is that for the lawyer, it is nearly absolute malpractice to NOT try to use every possible defense in a murder-one case.

And was it not the Lawyers and Judges that made it this way? If it were not for bleeding heart lawyers who were apparently more interested in criminal rights than in victims rights, I think the rest of the lawyers would have a much cleaner system to work with. [img]smile.gif[/img] Just a lay persons perspective.

[Timber Loftis]

Originally posted by MagiK: quote: Originally posted by Timber Loftis: What you may fail to realize is that for the lawyer, it is nearly absolute malpractice to NOT try to use every possible defense in a murder-one case.

And was it not the Lawyers and Judges that made it this way? If it were not for bleeding heart lawyers who were apparently more interested in criminal rights than in victims rights, I think the rest of the lawyers would have a much cleaner system to work with. [img]smile.gif[/img] Just a lay persons perspective.
[/QUOTE]It's not the lawyer failing to make the argument that is the problem -- wouldn't we all love that. It's the parade of lawyers that lawyer must face in the future, all who are required to "zealously represent" the defendant on his various "ineffective counsel" motions. If the legislature provides a defense, and if juries will hold a case on that defense, you can't ask me not to argue it. In the advesary system of justice, I must pick up every sword that may defend my charge. Lest I get called to the carpet later for failure to do so.

Again, we just argue the defenses given to us by the legislature. Especially where criminal law is concerned, the legislature dictates it all VERY SPECIFICALLY via statute.

[Aelia Jusa]

Originally posted by antryg: I really resent lawyers using such a defense. So many people suffer from the same problems/combination of problems and do not act out in such a horrible manner. The abrogation of personal responsibility should not be allowed. It is so tempting to place the blame on such factors. Our society seems to reject such concepts as evil or that a person would willingly embrace it. I think that this is just such a case. He is evil and finds that acceptable and normal. We need to protect ourselves from such normalcy.

First you can never say well this guy has the same problems as this guy so they should behave the same - you will NEVER find someone with exactly the same upbringing, internal skills, brain activity, genetic predispositions, conditioning, emotional problems, etc - even the smallest deviation can change someone's behaviour drastically! So it's a spurious argument.

Second where you say placing blame, I see as looking for causes. If someone starts behaving in an unacceptably sexual way and it turns out that they have epilepsy and were suffering the type of seizure that causes sexual automatisms that it the cause and as such they should be treated accordingly. It is not 'passing the buck' or trying to get out of taking responsibility but saying why did this happen. Now that's not to say that if there are 'causes' found then the person is patted on the head and told to go on home since it wasn't their fault. As Mel said, the solution for some people is simply to lock them up because they can't function in society, and definitely for this guy that seems to be the answer. Looking for causes also means it is possible to help young people who may be at risk, if they seem to be travelling down the same path. If we just say you're evil - lock you up, and don't even consider what may have lead to the act that brought them under scrutiny then how can we evolve as a society and stop it from happening again?

[Night Stalker]

Originally posted by Melusine: And no, we can't. Finally an interesting discussion and we'd have to bring out the old pro death anti death thing again which no one will ever agree on? Nuh-uh. no thanks. [img]graemlins/idontagreeatall.gif[/img] We've had that debate a million times over on IW and I'm sure if Wendy wanted us to discuss capital punishment in her thread she would have written a different opening post.

Aaawwwwww Come on Mel! How about just a turn or two around the dance floor! Dance with me! [img]graemlins/showoff.gif[/img]

No? [img]graemlins/awcrap.gif[/img] Alright

Well, the guy certainly seems twisted. I have no idea how one gets like that though.