Are people getting ruder? (Discussion)

[Azred]

Originally posted by Sazerac: I would like to open this up as an opportunity for serious discussion on this topic. This should not be taken as an opportunity to "American-bash", nor bash any other race or nationality, as that is a rudeness in and of itself. I'd like to ask a few questions as well, though, and get some discussion about these issues.

First, do you think people in general are ruder now than they were 10 years ago (1992)?

Absolutely. It is evident on TV, when driving, sitting in the movie theater (the worst--phones and kids), etc.

Is rudeness a serious problem, or is just something we have to put up with in today's society?

It is a serious problem, because there is almost no excuse for rude behavior (except in cases of emotional distress, in which case you allow someone to express their grief).

How often have you encountered rudeness in your daily life?

Only occasionally.

How often do you encounter rudeness online? Is it more, less, or the same as the amount you encounter offline?

Almost never. Actually, I encounter it much less online than offline.

Have you acted in a rude manner within the last week? The last month?

No. I don't like rudeness and thus never engage in that behavior.

What factors do you think contribute to rude behavior?

Stress. A lack of proper social skills. Being unconcerned with others' feelings.

Is there anything proactive (not reactive) that you as an individual and ourselves as a society can do to combat rudeness?

Individually, point out rude behavior when it occurs; don't let someone else step on your toes--but do so calmly and tactfully, of course. If you have children, teach them to respect both themselves and others. Learn to relax more; look at the big picture or the long run. Life is short enough so just learn to enjoy it.
As a society, we should do the same as my suggestions for the individual.

***************************

Strangely enough, I live in one of the towns from which the survey was taken. (if that isn't a hint I don't know what is) My red-headed belle works in retail; she has to put up with customers who are rude to her, rude to each other, and who are rude to their own kids--they drag really young children (younger than 6) into the store up until 11pm when the store closes. It's true! Going to the movies is a pain, also, becuase inevitably someone's phone/pager will ring or a baby will scream (or the young child will ask out loud if Hannibal Lecter is "the bad guy". Hannibal!)
I will utter profanity in the car if someone nearly hits me, but that I can chalk up to nervous reaction.

Societies in times past used to have many rules about what is proper bahavior and what is not, what is considered rude and what is not. I used to laugh and put down writers such as Judith Martin (Miss Manners) but now I wish that more people would pay attention to what she says. I think a couple of decades of becoming more tolerant of wild behavior has caused us (at least here in the US) to not speak up against rude behavior; too much emphasis on over-indulging the right to act as you wish, say what you wish, and do what you wish in a generally consequence-free environment. When someone can spill coffee on themselves and then sue the company that serves the coffee, smoke cigarettes for 30+ years and then sue the manufacturer, or other such silliness then the future of taking responsiblity for your own life and actions is looking pretty grim.

*rant* Yes, I did go on for quite a bit, didn't I?

[Sazerac]

Ok, my answers to my own questions:

1. No, I don't think people are ruder now than they were 10 years ago. I think we have a lot more opportunity to *hear* about it now, given the preponderance of the media and now the Internet as well. However, I do agree that the level of rude behavior has risen sharply since the 1970's and 1980's. Part of this is due, IMO, to the *Me* generation of the 70's and the Yuppie culture of the 80's that espoused a lot of self-serving, personal entitlement goals. While a lot of this helped free up people from limiting thoughts and systems, it also created quite a few problems. The "I'm Ok, You're Ok" of the 70's became the "I'm Ok, to hell with You" of the 80's and on into the 90's...and we're still seeing a lot of that.

Also, I think people are probably a lot less rude in rural cultures rather than in condensed urban cultures, which would explain the Minnesota Factor as mentioned above. As Colleen McCullogh wrote in "The Thorn Birds", people devalue that which they have the most of. In cities, that happens to be other people.

2. For the most part, I think rudeness is an annoyance that most of us have to put up with. Given the increased incidents of road rage violence, adolescent violence, and domestic violence that all start out generally from rudeness and disrespect of others, I'd say that it is a strong societal concern, if not a societal cost, and one that must be addressed by us individually and as a society. If anything has increased in the last ten years, it's not so much the level of rudeness, but the level to which people will go to act out on that rudeness. That's what scares me the most.

3. I'm fortunate, that in living in Denton, TX (Home of Happiness ) I rarely encounter uncommon rudeness, other than some minor traffic incidents. People around here are fairly friendly and courteous to one another. 35 miles down the road in Dallas, however, is another kettle of fish altogether. There is no way I'd ever live or even work in Dallas, which limits my job prospects considerably, but to me, it's just not worth the cost of personal anguish.

4. The amount of rudeness I encounter online is far more than I get offline. I don't know what makes normal, well-adjusted people act like rhinocerouses when they get behind a keyboard and a mouse, but it simply boggles my imagination to see some of the incredible petty, back-biting, back-stabbing, utterly rude behavior that some people evidence while online. (Fortunately, here at IW, that's pretty much a minimum, although it does crop up here from time to time.) I've seen people who have never met in real life cut each other to the bone verbally in some forums without so much as a "by-your-leave", and I want to ask them, "Is that how you'd talk to someone face-to-face?" I doubt that it is, and if it really is, I sure wouldn't want to meet those people.

All of us can be thoughtless or peremptory in our online speech from time to time, but there are some people out there who raise rudeness to an art form and seem to get their jollies by trolling various boards and making life miserable for others.

5. I will be honest. I am an impatient cuss. However, I do my best to keep my feelings within and not project them onto other people, no matter how irritated they make me, unless it's important that I vent. If I do vent, I try to do so in a constructive or proactive manner. "I have a problem with" rather than "You have a problem". Now I may rage and pound the walls by myself to *let off steam*, or, as Cloudy or others can tell you, blow off in a private ICQ chat, but I do what I can to keep rudeness out of my personal dealings with others. I try to be ever aware of how my actions and words affect others, which I guess is really the first step towards consideration...consider-ing how you affect other people.

6. There's probably plenty of factors that could cause rude behavior, but the ones I can think of are:

a. Stress
b. Self-serving attitudes toward life (the *Me* generation again)
c. Overcrowding (much rudeness probably goes back to territorial instinct)
d. Lack of proper role models during early years
e. Lack of social training
f. Living in a fast-paced, *disposable* society
g. Need for instant gratification (again, self-serving)
h. Materialism emphasized at the cost of human relationships.
i. Seeing rude behavior in movies, on TV, and in print, and becoming desensitized to it or thinking it's *funny* or the norm to be that way.

7. The only thing I can think of that can combat rudeness is return Good for Bad. Remember always that you are in control and another person's rudeness is no reflection on you. Instead, it's a great opportunity to demonstrate your own strength of character and resolve. Either ignoring rude behavior or returning rudeness with cheerfulness can be effective. If the rudeness persists (and is in a situation you can't remove yourself from, such as dealing with a store clerk with an attitude), again, retaining one's calm and poise and calmly but firmly asserting one's position is the best way to go. Find other alternatives; go to the clerk's manager and calmly report the incident. But losing one's temper and returning rudeness for rudeness is not the way to go; you've lost your soul, in effect, when you do that. It's hard, believe me, I know...I have to work at it all the time, and sometimes there comes those times when, after having a bad day and feeling tired, depressed, or cranky, I find it very difficult not to verbally bite someone's head off or act in a rude manner. All you can do at those times is find the strength within to pull yourself together. Or talk with a friend if possible. Or fire up a game on the computer and go bash bad guys for a bit.

Well, I have probably *rudely* taken over my own thread, so I'll let it go for now. I would love to hear from more! There's a lot of great ideas that have been posited here so far.

Cheers,

[jabidas]

Hmmmm, Language seems to be equated to rudeness yet this is not always true. Sometimes bad language can be humorous striking and effective. ( the life of of Brian anyone? ''what shall we do messiah'' recall the rest your self)

However I don't use it myself or try my best not to, I don't like the way it sounds, its harsh. It sounds ugly, this might be a bit risky but lets consider the word ■■■■. Imagine someone saying that as viciously as they can, the way the c and the k would be driven is like a nail. I am not comfortable with it and in casual circumstances its quite disgusting.

Any humor words like that have is lost by the overuse of them, I have nothing against the words or saying Jesus on any kind of profound religious way I just think it sounds ugly and it makes sentiments nastier as well.

Real Rudeness though, is that language? I think not, that's the bad driving, the lack of caring about the mess you make for other people and just plain ignorance. Let me clarify what I mean when I say ignorant, some would say ignorance is a merely a state of learning but im thinking more about people who know better but don't give a damn.

What leads to it all, I don't know maybe it is TV, maybe it is music that tells kids to swear maybe its a million and one other things but I think its up to everyone individually to be the better person and be more pleasant. Lead by example and so forth but not vary to the other extreme and become cold.

Anyone who can tell me where these two lines come from wins a medal.

If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
Or walk with kings - nor lose the common touch;

[ 04-03-2002, 03:02 PM: Message edited by: jabidas ]

[fable]

Originally posted by MagiK: EDIT: Isn't North Carolina where the fictional town of Mayberry was located for the Andy Griffith show?

Yeah, and he patterned Mayberry after the city of his birth: Mount Airy, North Carolina. I've been told it hasn't changed that much and actually keeps some of the character of Mayberry, but we never went there. I never liked the show, so why should I visit the place?

On the other hand, we lived in Louisburg, North Carolina, for about six years: population, two thousand plus. They had a main street (going downhill) and a lot of those beautiful, white, Civil War era houses, generally in very good shape. There were five churches, three white, and two black, and you were known by which church you went to. Fortunately, we lucked into moving onto a street occupied by people mostly of our own age, in their thirties and city-born, and a great bunch of friendly individualists they were, too. It was a genuine neighborhood. [img]smile.gif[/img]

[Mouse]

Yes.............now stop asking me stupid questions and go away, Sazerac [img]smile.gif[/img]

[Spelca]

I usually get more rudeness from older people. I guess they think I'm rude and all that just because I'm young. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

[Sazerac]

Originally posted by Mouse: Yes.............now stop asking me stupid questions and go away, Sazerac [img]smile.gif[/img]

And here we have Ironwork's own rudeness "poster boy".

Cheers,

[Pangur Ban]

Originally posted by Sazerac: First, do you think people in general are ruder now than they were 10 years ago (1992)? A bit hard to say ... Perhaps as we grow older we learn to value politeness and good manners more, so it just *seems* people are more rude? On the other hand a spoilt generation of children, encouraged and supported by parents, does seem to be emerging. As an example of this, my friends and I were at a ice skating show some time ago, and were lucky enough to get rinkside sheets. The two children from the family in the seats behind us talked constantly through the first half. During interval I asked the parents if they could keep the children quiet as it was distracting from our enjoyment of the show. To my surprise, I was told that *their* children were encouraged to talk and ask questions as much as they wanted to, and that I should mind my own business !! ( No though for anyone else at all ... ) I've seen many other similar examples of this, too many to list here. Is rudeness a serious problem, or is just something we have to put up with in today's society? Both. It is a problem, but you need a certain amount of "thick skin" so as not to let the rudeness of others spoil your own day. How often have you encountered rudeness in your daily life? I've lost count. How often do you encounter rudeness online? Is it more, less, or the same as the amount you encounter offline? Just like in RL, it depends on what places you visit ... [img]smile.gif[/img] Have you acted in a rude manner within the last week? The last month? Last week - Once. Last month - Don't remember What factors do you think contribute to rude behavior? Upbringing. The company you keep. How people treat you. What sort of mood you are in. Is there anything proactive (not reactive) that you as an individual and ourselves as a society can do to combat rudeness? Try and show good manners and politeness gets better results that rudeness. As the proverb goes: "You catch more flies with honey than with vinegar"

And now for my 2c worth.

Rudeness is the flipside of respect. How can you respect someone if you are rude to them?

Pang.

[ 04-03-2002, 05:36 PM: Message edited by: Pangur Ban ]

[Black Knight]

Originally posted by Mouse: Yes.............now stop asking me stupid questions and go away, Sazerac [img]smile.gif[/img]

hehe I debated about posting something like this...glad someone else thought it was humorous...

BK

First, do you think people in general are ruder now than they were 10 years ago (1992)?

I've always thought people in general were rude. Maybe I've just experienced more than others, the levels which rudeness can reach, but people can be extremely rude, adults and children alike.
In the U.S. the rudest attitudes are (like it or not but its true) more prevalent east of the Mississippi.
Something to do with more crowded urban areas, money? Who knows, but I noticed a big change when I moved west...much less prejudice and generally nicer people but to answer the question directly, "YES" I've seen a more laid-back western society become ruder with the influx of easterners moving into neighborhoods, competing for jobs and money...racial prejudice plays a big part...something people really need to work on in themselves.

Is rudeness a serious problem, or is just something we have to put up with in today's society?

How do you propose making society more polite?
Of course, rudeness is a serious problem but do we become intolerant or less understanding of others when we ask them to be nice?

How often have you encountered rudeness in your daily life?

Very often. I've learned to read people well enough to think I know when to ask for more politeness and when to keep quiet because it won't do any good...I keep quiet more often than not, mainly because the rudeness from others that I suffer is caused by their racial prejudice and that is something people need to "unlearn" for themselves.

How often do you encounter rudeness online? Is it more, less, or the same as the amount you encounter offline?

I experience more rudeness in RL than online...probably because I spend more time in RL than I do online, but in RL the levels of rudeness I experience are from one extreme to the other...dirty looks from little rich girls who don't approve of my attire (lol), adults who push and shove, customer service reps who'll let people of their own race cut in front of me (with a smile even [img]smile.gif[/img] ) down to the outrightly dangerous...and here we're talking situations where my physical safety, my life, has been threatened because of other's not caring that I was there...in traffic (on Monday I was driven off the highway by a semi-truck...into the median...and then cut off by another driver slowing down to see me get crushed...lucky for me I had quick reflexes and a guardian angel looking out for me, but the drivers, both of them of the local ethnic group that "feels put down" by the race I appear to be could have cared less that they both put me in mortal danger...I actually think they were sorry that I made it through it alive.) Maybe things like this will stop if I get tanned and my Native American skin shows up better lol but crap like this happens every day...people pulling out in front of me at half the speed I'm going and putting on their brakes...all the stupid things people do in traffic that are too numerous to list. It also might help if I drove a car less seen as "an old person's car" and people wouldn't think me an easy target for insurance scams. Luckily for me, I've gotten into Yoga again and the stress levels these situations create are not nearly as high as they could be...I think if I hadn't, some people would nave gotten their asses kicked by now. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Online...people are nice and people are rude in all kinds of places...big freaking deal how rude people want to be online..I have the choice to ignore them, set a polite example for them, or be rude back...it all depends on my mood and how bored I am here at home as to how far I'll take it or go along with it.

Have you acted in a rude manner within the last week? The last month?

I am generally not a rude person, I am very kind and friendly as a matter of fact, but I won't hesitate to ask for certain personal rights that others may consider rude of me (i.e. this guy at school has a crush on me and he stands too close and talks dirty...he and his (male) friends thought I was rude to tell him to stay at least an arm's length away and to shut the trash talk off completely if he wanted to keep talking to me, but I feel I was right in doing so if he wants to remain an acquaintance of mine.) I'll also tell people in stores to "EXCUSE me" when they feel like they have to stand in the aisles to chit chat, blocking the aisles from people like me who are there to actually shop. They get pissed. F*ck them

What factors do you think contribute to rude behavior?

Intolerance.
Impatience.
Racial prejudice.
Sh*tty lives with details we aren't aware of.
Some people (usually people unhappy with themselves/their lives) just think its fun.

Is there anything proactive (not reactive) that you as an individual and ourselves as a society can do to combat rudeness?

Set a polite example for others and see how many people it rubs off on.
Good Luck!

[ 04-04-2002, 11:45 AM: Message edited by: Moni ]