For you Atheist's (like me) or anyone for that matter

[Sazerac]

Jabidas: PLEASE either disable your sig picture or host it at a different site. No one appreciates having to click off the pop-up box asking us to "log in" to view your picture. This is happening in several other threads that you're posting in as well.

Back to the discussion at hand...

[Yorick]

quote:

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Originally posted by Fljotsdale:

Religion or lack of it makes little difference, since each type contains those who profess to be believers of one sort or another and those who profess to be atheists.

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Er... wrong! LOL It makes all the difference in the individual believers. [img]graemlins/laugh2.gif[/img]

You're thinking macro rather than micro. Think the slave trader that wrote "Amazing Grace".

Heck, it makes me a vastly different person to without it.

I've said it before, the difference a faith makes in life can only be compared within an individuals life. How much have they changed? How were they before? Any macro differences cannot be quantified can they? Perhaps even they can, but I'm not going to be bothered dragging out statistics on womens shelters, homeless hostels, third world food distributors, marriage counselling services (free) and free self esteem workshops all run by Christians compared to how many are run by non-Christians, because that's not my point.

[Yorick]

quote:

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Originally posted by jabidas:
I refuse to submit to any Tyranny of the mind.

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Same here. I agree.

[Yorick]

quote:

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Originally posted by jabidas:
The arguments against God are more logical.

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In your mind.

The arguments for, are more logical than the arguments against in my mind. My beliefs are based on fact, circumstancial evidence and what I see all around me. A logical assumtion has been drawn. You should always taking the line of "I have drawn this conclusion from the available information" then no-one can argue with you unless they have additional info. It is entirely likely that given a reversal in our experiences we would each believe the opposite wouldn't we?

Just because you cannot fathom the logic in perceiving a creator, so can I not fathom the logic in perceiving none.

Vive le difference.

[Worm]

quote:

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Originally posted by jabidas:
First I should mention Im an atheist.

Next I refuse to let anyone or any religion do my thinking for me or to dictate to me what my values or perceptions should be no matter how eloquent. I refuse to let any one organization do that because people make mistakes and if I make them at least they will be my own mistakes. It is my opinion that all such people or organizations who do claim complete understanding are not only liars but fools and far too often people end up worshiping an individual or group to the detriment of their won selves.

I personally dislike trying to quote people as a method to express my own views because I think you should be careful not to find yourself bowing down to the finger that points to god (metaphorically speaking of course on my part) and I think such shall we say plagiarizing leads to a lack of thought on our own part.

Now I know there are innumerable arguments as to why god doesn't exist and the ones that point to his existence tend to be have faith but Im not going to get into that because I doubt im going to change anyone's mind so let me sum up everything ive been blathering on about into one statement.

I refuse to submit to any Tyranny of the mind.

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Bleh. I try to walk the path of least resistance to hold values to heart to molds one life after these values to truely not live that is tyranny. Tyranny of one's self in trying to keep yourself form influences you are limiting your spectrum of life. Take all things into your heart to not fight the one coming tide nor let it wash you away stand still and experience the feel of the water against your skin. Life is meant to be experienced not meant to be battled against.

[Yorick]

quote:

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Originally posted by Fljotsdale:
And YOU have beliefs too, you know, that others would consider foolish: you BELIEVE god does not exist, for example.

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No. He has no belief in (a) God. Neither does a cat or an ant. Nonbelief is not a belief, it is the absence of belief in the thing referenced.

It's funny how we can turn "nothing" into something isn't it. What's in that box? Nothing? Actually there's air inside it.

Space is true nothingness. The absence of anything. Yet it's so beyond our experience that it perceptionally becomes a "thing" or a "place". Space. Up in space, through space.

Space is just that. Void.

Similarly not believing in something is simply having no belief in it. A negative line. Belief is positive. Like any positive action, it's harder to excercise belief than not. It's proactive.

I realise that as an apostate you have a different view on the matter as you excercised choice to reject that which filled your life for so. Still, I believe the definition stands, in spite of whatever mental processes brought about the current state on "nonbelief". (notice the negating language)

[Yorick]

quote:

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Originally posted by Worm:
Life is meant to be experienced not meant to be battled against.

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Hear, hear.

[Yorick]

Why is it that no-one else seems peturbed or offended by the sexist language of the first post? Am I the only feminist? I'm a male!!

[Djinn Raffo]

quote:

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Originally posted by Yorick:
Why is it that no-one else seems peturbed or offended by the sexist language of the first post? Am I the only feminist? I'm a male!!

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It was written by a woman...if Madalyn can indeed be takena s a womans name...

[Cerek the Barbaric]

Morgan_Corbesant - Interesting perspective.

Yorick - Superb response.

jabidas - Christian's don't have their thoughts or values dictated to them. As was mentioned, some can be petty and vindictive while others would literally do anything to help a stranger.

We are ALL individuals with our own thought process, values, and beliefs. When a person accepts Jesus Christ as his/her Saviour, then the Holy Spirit indwells within them and offers guidance. The born-again Christian is now able to see sin from God's perspective. That DOESN'T mean that he/she avoids all sin from then on.
The Holy Spirit guides us, but it is up to us to actually follow the path. Meanwhile, Satan is doing everything he can to get us to go the other way. Sometimes Satan wins. Hopefully though, the Holy Spirit wins more. A Christian struggles with temptation many times every day. Inevitable, we occasionally fail. However, God's love is infinite and He forgives our sins.

OK, Sorry for the mini-sermon. The pro's and con's of atheist vs Christian are too numerous and complex to fully explore here. I have a very good friend who is a devout atheist, and we have debated the issue for well over 1.5 years. Let me just say 2 things in defense of Christianity.

1) When a person accepts Jesus Christ as their Saviour, the pure joy of Salvation is so great that they HAVE to tell everybody they know. Just imagine that you won the Powerball Lottery this week...what you would you do? You would probably burn the phone lines (and this forum) telling everybody about your good fortune (and rightfully so). Christians believe they have won the Ultimate Lottery. And we didn't even have to buy a ticket.

2) How do I know God is real? Is it based on faith? Absolutely. The Bible specifically says that we HAVE to accept God on faith.
But I have another reason to believe in Him. Four years ago, I developed an urgent, life-threatening condition. I was hospitalized and should have have been admitted into surgery immediately. But a combination of factors led to a 30-hour wait and a transfer to a hospital 70 miles away. When I awoke from surgery (my third major one at that time), I knew that I was healed.
A few days later, my wife was acting a little strange. Circumstances were forcing her to return to her job, 70 miles away, but she was obviously upset about something far greater than that. She finally told me that - after my operation - the surgeon came to her and my mom and asked if they believed in miracles.
When they both answered "Yes", he said "That's good, because a miracle is the ONLY thing that is going to save him. Personally, I don't expect him to survive the next 72 hours!"
WHAT A TERRIBLE SHOCK!!! My wife and I had only been married 3 years and our first-born child was only 8 months old! He was going to grow up without ever knowing me.
Well, obviously,I survived (hurray). When I returned home, I learned exactly how my miracle had occurred. I worked at the hospital where I was originally admitted. Everybody there knew me, and most of them were Christians (or at least church-goers). They knew how dangerous my condition was and they got on the phone to their friends, relatives, and fellow church members. This began a series of prayer-chains (groups of people praying for the same person or purpose). Within just a few hours, ALMOST EVERY SINGLE CHURCH in my home county had a prayer chain going for me. I literally had hundreds of people (some of whom didn't even know me) praying to God to spare me. So He did. I am living proof that prayer really does work.

As for all the atheists - Though they sadden me, I still respect your beliefs.

May life bring you all the happiness and joy you could ever hope for and may Fate have nothing but smiles for your future.