America: Love It or Leave It

[Sazerac]

Originally posted by Kaz: That would probably be the way I feel about Germany - IF such thinking weren't considered Nazi. As it is, I really like living in Germany, but America has definite advantadges too. I like both countries, but I will not stop critizising them or take everything in it at face value. Is that something like what you mean, Diogenes? (No you're posting quite clearly its just been a long day and I'm tired so I didn't understand all of what you said) EDIT: Oops, I just realized that I accidentally accused you of being Nazis Sorry. I hope you all realize the way I mean it.

Not at all, Kaz. I understand completely...many may think that being pro-Germany is pro-Nazi. That's sad. One should be able to take pride in one's country and not have to apologize for it.



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[Blade]

If you can't take pride in your country at leat a little what can you take pride in?

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Many blade cut weather they are mettle or wood, but the sharpest and deadlyist blade it the one of knowledge.

[Cloudbringer]

Originally posted by Absynthe: Diogenes, you have a gift for clear statements, and I do believe you have hit this one on the head. I agree with you 100% concerning ones responsibility to make changes. When patriotism turns to chauvinism, one's ability to think clearly is diminished. As a side note, I have seen the people who have given service in the armed forces used as tools for politicians. My father fought in WWII and received a distinguished service medal, yet he was utterly, adamantly opposed to the U.S. presence in Viet Nam. Although military service in and of itself is an honorable thing, the military is often used for dishonorable causes by politicians with no moral fiber.

Yes, Dio is good at that, isn't he?!

You know it is truly amazing the depth of opinion and conviction we can find in one country, nevermind a whole world! My father did two tours of duty in Vietam when I was young. He fought for his country and for the ideals expressed at the time. He has his views of politics like anyone else. But that one topic is a hot one that even *I* don't push. Why? Because he adamantly believes he was there for a good reason and I'll not shake that or try to. That was a topic of so much controversy it could take it's own forum! One thing I will say, knowing he lost pals there, knowing how very close I was to losing my father (he did one tour on the DMZ- his job was repairing bombers and recon planes, he's a mechanic by trade, airplanes in the service), I will not ever tell him it was for nothing. And no amount of 'logic' will ever make me feel differently. I may question our reasons/motives etc. But that will never make me betray the feelings that my father and most of my family (many served this country with distinction in the military)have for what they did and why they did it.

I do think, that sometimes being right is not so good a thing as being thoughtful.

Cloudy

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Raindancer of the Laughing Hyenas Clan
Storm-Queen
Raven's Cloud
StormCloud of the Black Knight: Heart Mind Soul Forever
"To sleep, perchance to dream..."

You are absolutely right Cloudy. I have respect for people who act on their convictions, and live out their creed. I would never fault someone for doing what they think is right. Especially so if what they are doing involves personal sacrifice for what they believe to be the good of their country/community.

[Cloudbringer]

Originally posted by Absynthe: You are absolutely right Cloudy. I have respect for people who act on their convictions, and live out their creed. I would never fault someone for doing what they think is right. Especially so if what they are doing involves personal sacrifice for what they believe to be the good of their country/community.

See, I knew I liked you, Absynthe! You are truly an amazing person and so diplomatic! Thanks. Think I'll head home now and check in on the board from there. This is an interesting day on IW.

Cloudy

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Raindancer of the Laughing Hyenas Clan
Storm-Queen
Raven's Cloud
StormCloud of the Black Knight: Heart Mind Soul Forever
"To sleep, perchance to dream..."

[MILAMBER]

Diogenes, I'm with you 100%. You won't find anybody more patriotic then I am. I love this country, but this country like anything, can use constructive criticism.

There is a huge (and I mean massive) difference between slamming and objectively discussing/criticizing America. Our leadership does stupid things sometimes, and I'll be the first to admit that. Saying our leadership is stupid is one thing, saying Americans are stupid because of said leadership is completely different.

I love hearing different perspectives on our country from others, as long as they are well formed opinions instead of personal attacks. I think everyone here knows the difference though, so there's no need to point this out.

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"The object of war is not to die for your country but to make the other bastard die for his."
-General George Patton (1885-1945)

Member of CLAN HADB

Why Do You Think I Don't Live in the USA?

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I Am The SunGod
Here To Enlighten You

[Moridin]

The way I look at it is this: There is not a single country out there that is 100% perfect...far, far from it. I got into a heated debate with a friend of a friend once and their entire side of the conversation was "Well if you don't like it then leave" I tried to explain that leaving will not make it better. If there were a Utopian paradise out there then yes I might leave, but why flee my country only to find the same problems in another? And how is change going to be implemented if we just run away everytime we disagree with how things are run? It really irks the crap out of me when people say "People fought and died for your rights" but they fail to understand that that is what I am using, my rights as a citizen to voice my opinion and to effect change. People did not fight and die for me to sit on my hands and keep my mouth closed!

You are 100% right Dio....couldn't agree more

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Never try to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and it annoys the pig
I've got to admit it's getting better, it's getting better all the time
Bossman of Better Funny Stuff.....of the Laughing Hyenas!

[MILAMBER]

Originally posted by Rikard: Why Do You Think I Don't Live in the USA?

Because you're 16 and don't have a choice yet.

Not that it would change your opinion or anything, but I'm sure it's a factor.

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"The object of war is not to die for your country but to make the other bastard die for his."
-General George Patton (1885-1945)

Member of CLAN HADB

[This message has been edited by MILAMBER (edited 09-07-2001).]

[Moridin]

Originally posted by MILAMBER: Because you're 16 and don't have a choice yet. Not that it would change your opinion or anything, but I'm sure it's a factor.

I was going to say b/c we don't have live sex shows here, but I guess that might be disgusting to some

come on mods come and get me


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Never try to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and it annoys the pig
I've got to admit it's getting better, it's getting better all the time
Bossman of Better Funny Stuff.....of the Laughing Hyenas!