No experience points... flaw???

[Radek]

I don't think the "no XP" method a good idea. I think there should be a difference between:
- killing a golden saint
- killing 50 rats
- clicking a trainer of something repeatedly
The "no XP" method makes all this equal. You can gain several levels and get dozens of skill increases by a single scrib: let the scrib attack (training of armor related skills, including unarmored skill) and when you get enough skill points then teleport away and level up. Then come back to the scrib. Such practices should not be possible.

Experience points represent a fair reward. You must show that you are capable to stand a difficult opponent if you want a good amount of them. The "no XP" method has no equivalent for a fair reward. You can achieve the same without any effort.

[promethius9594]

but there are XPs for the game, they simply function differently. for example, each scrib attack takes a small amount of experience to block. if you block a golden saint, you gain MUCH more blocking experience than if you block a scrib. the ONLY difference is that the overall experience points have been broken down from a lump sum into various categories such that in order to improve any one skill you must work that skill, not just generally do things. there are even level adjustments for the experience... you complain before you know. i have a level 57 assasin, and i would have to kill nearly 500 rats to increase my weapon skill. leveling skills gets more difficult as you get higher, but it gets more difficult in EACH aspect, whereas BASIC training in other aspects remains simpler. thus the game is more true to life... a person who wants to learn to make a very basic potion wouldnt have to earn 10,000 experience points by killing dragons, but instead would have to earn 100 experience points by making potions. it makes perfect sense.

[Radek]

AFAIK, there is no difference among "trainers". All skills work on the basis "successful action - a predefined amount of skill given". Therefore, if you block a golden saint then you get the same amount of blocking experience as if you block a rat. My knowledge is based on tables published on the internet and it may be wrong. Nevertheless, I haven't seen a difference in gaining a skill experience between a golden saint and a rat. The only difference I have experienced is based on the skill position. You proceed in maior skill fastest and in miscellaeous skill slowest.
As far as the level adjustment is concerned, I have seen only adjustments caused by the skill level, not by the character level. Unlike Daggerfall, a high level character seems to proceed in skills as fast as low a level character. Again, I can be wrong.
As far as your example with alchemy is concerned, it's the matter of the game logic. If the game logic is trivial and allows increasing alchemy by killing dragons then you are right. If the logic is less trivial, then you will have to sacrifice your skill points for Alchemy even if you need them somewhwere else. If the game logic is even less trivial and allows self training, then you get a picture, which makes perfect sense.
Let us note that, for example, Might and Magic system is more fair than the Morrowind one. In Might and Magic, you have to act if you want to level up and get skill points. Only then you can distribute your skill points among skills. In Morrowind, you can sit in Balmora, earn money by selling and buying items at a bribed shopkeep and use the money for training skills to 50 or more. It can happen easily, that you will leave Balmora for the first time at level 10 or so. It doesn't make perfect sense.

[Avatar]

DAMN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Can someone please explain in newbie terms how this soul trap works... wish I can kill that orgrim again!!

I have about a million soul gems and scrolls but hwo does it all work??

[Aelia Jusa]

You have to cast soul trap on the monster whose soul you want to trap. Then kill him within 60 seconds (I'm not sure whether different soul trap spells have a different time allowance for this, you'll have to check it yourself). Then you need an empty soul gem (one that doesn't have a monster's name in brackets in the name), that is strong enough to hold the soul - much tougher monsters like the daedra won't fit in petty soul gems, for instance. When you're successful you'll get a message saying you've trapped a soul.

Hope that made sense [img]smile.gif[/img] . Also, the blue winged creatures promethius mentioned are winged twilights, and the tricerotops ones are clannfear

[Avatar]

Thanks Aelia!

Two more questions:

1) I just beat Umbra fair and square at level 12!!!!!!!! Maybe its meant to be easy but i hear he is kinda tufff!

Anyway, I was hoping for a cool sword that did like 1million dmg because thats what it felt like, however it traps souls' spell on every hit (as u def. know). Does this mean I will always succeed in trapping as long as I have large enuf gem?


2) What are DAEDRA??? I mean I hear them every 5minutes but what are they? looks, powers, difficulty?


THANKS!

[promethius9594]

1) I just beat Umbra fair and square at level 12!!!!!!!! Maybe its meant to be easy but i hear he is kinda tufff!

Anyway, I was hoping for a cool sword that did like 1million dmg because thats what it felt like, however it traps souls' spell on every hit (as u def. know). Does this mean I will always succeed in trapping as long as I have large enuf gem?

well, he can be tough, depending on where your difficulty slider is set. i don't think he's tougher than some of the characters i faced in the tribunal expansion, although i've never fought him before. check and make sure that the sword says "cast when strikes" by the soul trap, because last time i heard, you had to cast its spell to use it... maybe its changed. if so, yes, having a big enough soul gem, and the creature doesnt resist the soul trap spell, then you would catch a soul. dont trap anything other than a golden saint or ascended sleeper while you have a grand soul gem, or you're just waisting a good soul gem.

2) What are DAEDRA??? I mean I hear them every 5minutes but what are they? looks, powers, difficulty?

daedra is a term for occult monsters. they vary in looks and aspects. every monster i listed above is a daedra (monster). add to that these two more that you might want to be cautious about, or avoid:

-->fat robed alien looking things that look like they have tentacles hanging from their mouths (ascended sleepers or dagoths)
--> strange looking guys in simple grey robes that look like they have short snouts (ash zombies or dagoths, depending on who youre dealing with)
-->ash zombies, sleepers, and ash slaves arent so difficult to deal with, but they are daedra as well.

at level twelve you should be able to beat most daedra, with the exception of dremora, golden saints, ascended sleepers, winged twilights, and maybe storm atronarchs. read my above posts for descriptions of each.

[Oruboris]

I'm pretty sure Umbra's sword casts soul trap when used [that is, when you select it as your active magic and 'cast' it], not when strikes.

The Soul Drinker Dagger casts when strikes, though. A reward given by twitchy Ranis, head of the Balmora Mage guild. Just about my favorite dagger.

Soul trap can be had as spell or scroll too, of course.

'Psychic Prison' scrolls soul trap and paralyze: a nice combination in the early going. You can have a spellmaker craft a similar spell for you, but you'll find higher level daedra are often un-affected by the paralyze half of the equation.

Like all spells, it can vary in how long it lasts. Golden saints frequently 'dispel' the spell, forcing you to re-cast it.

So long as its active, the targeted critter will have a white swirly circling them. So long as they have the swirly, doesn't matter how you kill them. Often wise to put an arrow or dart in them from a distance before you cast trap-- it all depends on your skill.

Different souls need different size gems, but some very basic souls like Cliff racers will go in the lowest souls you have: if you have a lot of 'lessers' [blue crystals] you want to get filled, dump your 'pettys' [green crystals] first. OTOH, some souls seem to go to the largest eligible gem: Its been a while since its happened to me, but I *think* I remember some souls that would fit in a 'greater' [purple cluster crystal] occupping a 'grand' instead: really ticked me off...

The same soul is worth more in a larger gem. Petty and lesser gems are great trade items-- enchanters buy them, and Creeper does too, IIRC...

To use a filled gem, drag and drop it on your character pic. A menu will pop up asking whether you want to 'make' or 'recharge'. If you pick make, it will take you to the same enchantment menu you get from a professional enchanter. If you choose 'recharge' it will display a list of all your enchanted items that aren't at full charge capacity.

Making and recharging both train your enchant skill.

HTH
Oru

[promethius9594]

um, oru, ALL souls take the smallest available soul gem which will hold them. you probably killed an ogrim titan, who has to go into a grand soul gem, unlike the normal ogrim. thats the trouble with various monsters.

for example: skeletons will go into lesser soul gems. skeleton champions go into grand soul gems. thats just the way it is.

[Oruboris]

Really? Is this on a pc?

On mine, ogrim titans are worth less than regular ogrim-- regs need a greater gem, titans will fit in a common, and are only worth 2800, as opposed to a scamp thats worth 4000.

It's possible I'm mistaken on a soul taking a higher gem than it deserves, though: I've only seen it happen a couple of times, and it may be that the gem I expected it to use was occupied or something.

Oru