Gandalf, mage or sorcerer?

[andrewas]

thinking a bit more - in the film gandalf always uses his staff to cast spells. maybe he's just a warrior with high int/wis and a kick ass staff with many spells bound to it. infinite charges of course - so many of each per day or something. bit hard to put into BG2, impossible to balance as well.

[SixOfSpades]

Well, judging by the type of spells Gandalf usually casts (he seems to like fire & lightning a whole lot), I'd say he was an Invoker, although he does do a lot of other tricks as well, of course (the horses in the floodwaters at the Ford of Brunien, his casting Resist Fear on everyone during the siege of Minas Tirith). I'm disinclined to think he's got any Cleric or Druid in him, as he never heals anybody that I can recall, although he does seem friendly with certain animals (Beorn, various eagles).

I'd always considered the Istari to be Maiar, myself. The text states that they did not grow old and die as Men did, so they must be either immortal or Elves--and when's the last time you saw an Elf with a beard? Being a demigod, I think Gandalf can ignore the racial restrictions--then again, they took the forms of Men, so they might be bound by the restrictions of Men. So, either Fighter dualed to Invoker, or Half-Elven Fighter/Mage. Wisdom through the roof, or course, and high Charisma for his persuasive qualities. Great CON as well--he's quite difficult to kill, as I'm sure the Balrog noted.

[Mourn Yauntyyr]

Gandalf is definitely a Maiar, as his true name was Olorin "in his youth in the West that is forgotten". Olorin was a direct servant of
Manwe and is called "wisest of the Maia" (thus the 23 WIS above). The other Istari are also Maiar, the Vala (a spirit equivalent to an archangel) Aule sent Curumo (Saruman), the Vala Orome sent Alatar, the Vala Yavanna sent Aiwendil (Radagast, a druid), and a fifth Maia, Pallando (a servant of either Orome or Mandos and Nienna), joined Alatar as a friend.

Also, the Istari are definitely magic-users of some type as the Quenya (High Elven) word for wizard is "istar".

If you pick up Tolkien's Unfinished Tales, it talks about all this explicitly.

Mourn Yauntyyr
(who is often demeaned as a "Tolkien freak")

[oaxaca_dan]

very nice Mourn - demeaned as a tolkien "freak" is fitting for you (though, it should be considered a complement)

andrewas - the maiar can die - sauron is a maiar, and he died several times (fall of numenor, war of the last alliance, and the war of the ring, and i think he may have perished in the final battle of the first age - i don't have the silmarillion on me, so i'm not sure what the name of that battle is) - the problem is that the Maiar don't die so easy - the body dies, but the spirit does not. Sauron die permanently at the end of LOTR cause he had passed most of his spirit into the ring, and when it was destroyed, so was that spirit. A similar thing happened to Saruman at the end of the return of the king, though that was more cause he had strayed from the original aim of the Istari, and was denied access to the west (valinor) upon his death

"... about the body of Saruman a grey mist gathered, and rising slowly to a great height like smoke from a fire, as a pale shrouded figure it loomed over the Hill. For a moment it wavered, looking to the West; but out of the West came a cold wind, and it bent away, and with a sigh dissolved into nothing."

sorry, i'm in a tolkien kind of mood

oaxaca_dan

[Whailor]

Well, I aint now such a hardcore Tolkien fan, neither don't I have all these fancy quotes and names and stuff up in my sleeve to throw out. I read some of the books in the past, liked them, still do. But I cannot quote them so there..

Anyway, as for Gandalf, then I aint going into details as I don't know them. But remembering a bit from the book and also freshest memory from the movie, then he isn't a "pure" caster class. He does have a wide range of spells, "wizardly" and "priestly" types, but he's also rather snappy in melee fight and can take more then few whacks at his carcass without dieing. So from the game point of view, he's either some multiclass a la fighter/cleric/mage - which isn't so viable perhaps as he's still more of a caster, then melee and then priest - or he's a fighter dualled into mage, with some "priestly special abilities". I.e. look at Mazzy in BG2 - a fighter with paladin-like abilities. I haven't seen/read Gandalf healing someone, so I do incline to think that he could be in BG2 as a fighter (not a bad btw, say lvl 13) dualled into mage, with some "priestly" special abilities.

Just some thoughts from no hardcore Tolkien fan.

[Whalken]

Hmm, ok.
Think I'm gonna make him sorcerer, who maybe will dual to a fighter at a high level.
Thanks for your ideas, guys/gals!


-Whalken

[Sir Kenyth]

I don't think it's possible to translate him into an AD&D player character. It's a completely different fantasy world. You'd have to treat him as a demi-god type and make all of his powers unique and not governed by the standard set of rules. Even this wouldn't work too well.

[J'aran]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Whalken:
Hmm, ok.
Think I'm gonna make him sorcerer, who maybe will dual to a fighter at a high level.
Thanks for your ideas, guys/gals!


-Whalken

---

You can't dual a Sorcerer, can you? Non-specialist Magi are the only wizard-class that can dual IIRC.

[Professor]

Neutral Good is most accurate, I think.
Remember, he was Gandalf the Grey and then he became Gandalf the White.
I think his innate knowledge of magic would make him a sorceror.

[Amergin]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Whalken:
Hmm, ok.
Think I'm gonna make him sorcerer, who maybe will dual to a fighter at a high level.
Thanks for your ideas, guys/gals!


-Whalken

---

unless you know how to use Near Infinity and can edit .2DA files you won't ever combine sorcerer with anything, and even then it tends to crash on level ups. i know, ive tried .

best way to get around this is use SK to up his attacks, lower his THAC0, boost hp's, and add proficiencies to whatever level of fighter you want him to perform at, but youll have to change the THAC0 after it gets reset when he levels up.

[ 01-17-2002: Message edited by: Amergin ]