Third and last dead !

[Variol (Farseer) Elmwood]

I would also shy away from class changes with a small party, they just won't be great at anything.
My last 2 parties were, 3 bards and the other of 3 gadgies. I really didn't miss a lot of those spells 'course you get armorplate, x-ray and searchlight with the gadgy.

BTW: My 3 Rangers are doing very well at lvl 20!
I even gave 2 of them the beastslayer for a few lvls. It was better than any other weapon at the time. That was low teens and then I got me 3 giant swords!

[Scatter]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Variol (Farseer) Elmwood:
I would also shy away from class changes with a small party, they just won't be great at anything.


heh, shows you once again how variable the game is. Almost half the members of all my parties of 4 or fewer have changed class more than the one level for stealth (and especially the Solos). And nearly all have done that.
Maybe it's a question of how much practise you think people need--or are patient enough to give them. With a lot of practise, for example, a Bard can max Music as soon as you get the d'Amour. And once you've maxed Music, the only reason to stay Bard to L18 is to be able to play all the instruments. But if you want to increase your deadliness with your sword, and you want to run out of Stamina or HP less often (and/or you're a Mook and want to use that nice huge slice of steel), then you switch to Fighter, get increased Stamina recovery, and put on the Infy Helm, Golden Breastplate, etc. It's a matter of math; a Fighter with Light, or a Sam with Muramasa or light, kills more stuff than the Bard would ever do, even with all the instruments.
Maybe keep the Gad, their Asphyxiation device is usually more effective than the spell, unless you got a Mage up to L22 and Powercast.
But many class-changers work quite well, and develop parallel skills: a Bishop turned to Lord once you got up to L4 spells can then continue developing Divinity by level 13, and continue developing Mace, and adding Dual. And getting more HP, and the Regen skill, and better Armor and Weapons...

In fact, it is a specialty of the smaller party that your Chars get more XP each, and have a better chance of making a very good multi-classer.

[Loudhy]

Originally posted by Wereboar: In my experience, Trynton is no problem if you have a level 9 mage or bishop (elemental shield, x-ray, offensive power). With a group of hybrids, it is more dangerous. [/QB]

Ther is no chance with a lvl 9 Mage/Bishop against lvl 13 Oak Elders or lvl 12 Widowmakers.
The first max whipping rocks kills the guy or the first webbing paralyses the whole party. At that stage the party is also much to slow, the enemies are always faster. With 2 elders before you all mages are dead after the first round. To finish Trynton on expert at lvl 9 IMO you need a little bit of luck . Surrounded by widowmakers kills the party (with x-ray or not). You have no portal to flee and no summon to get some help and trynnie patrols are no match for a widowmaker. I saw one killing a group of guards and hunters with ease.

So I decided : The next party (after W&W) will enter Trynton after the bishop reaches lvl 11. Them I'm able to flee if necessary.

[Variol (Farseer) Elmwood]

Personally, I hate Trynton so I so there late, usually around mid-teens lvl. This way I have the idol and kill the Don and don't ave to go back to the stupid place.
I also see the point of class changes. I'm kind of thinking of changing my rangers now but I'm just not sure it's worth it at lvl 21, since they're doing pretty good now

[Wereboar]

@Loudhy: With x-ray, i don't get surrounded, since i know there are enemies behind me. And i manually start combat (out of normal range), so i get a first round to cast protection spells. In addition, with that deadly opponents, i make sure to engage the fight with a group of trynnies between me and the opponents. And at the fountain i've cast the buffs at level 7. I've killed serveral groups of widowmakers that way (and got some loot off the trynnies). Sometimes i even try not to kill the monsters before most of the trynnies are dead.

The elders are another class. I'll flee from them i i'm not able to get to the anti.magic room.

Being level 11 is a good idea for most places. For example, without a party i consider powerful (magic or melee), i don't kill the breaders (since the route back van be very hard)

[Loudhy]

Originally posted by Wereboar: @Loudhy: With x-ray, i don't get surrounded, since i know there are enemies behind me. And i manually start combat (out of normal range), so i get a first round to cast protection spells. In addition, with that deadly opponents, i make sure to engage the fight with a group of trynnies between me and the opponents. )

Why not , Wereboar ? It happened to me short before the zoo. O.k. with X-Ray you see, that there are enemies. But mostly you identify them later. Especially me, because I let Mythology grow by doing, I don't spend skill points.
Without portal , the only way to flee from there is in the opposite direction to the house with the 2 giant spiders, (and if the first group moves in your direction too, there is a chance they enter the combat later).
With bad luck the red dots on the other side are a second group widowmakers. And their webbing is deadly .
And you do not always have spearmen or champions close to you so : What chance do you have ??
Magic Screen and Missile Shield are up, of course. But I found out, that at this low level they do not protect well from spells or webbing. And as mentioned earlier those spiders ar always the first so the mage cannot cast his spells because he is webbed immediatly. And because he isn't strong he cannot free himself early.

[img]graemlins/monster5.gif[/img]

[ 07-21-2004, 01:45 AM: Message edited by: Loudhy ]

[Wereboar]

When i notice red dots where they shouldn't be (behind me), i go back to deal with them, so no two fights at once. Then i manually enter combat before the game engine does, so i get a first free round (i need someone with a ball spell or a bow to be sure that combat starts). Thus no webbed characters before my spells are up. After the combat started, other groups do not move in my experience, unless somthing/someone enters their immediate area.

With x-ray, you only see the enemies. But then, go near (but not near enough that the game starts combat). Start combat, enter the run command, run partly to them, then you can at least get their level with right mouse click. And then run back out of the combat range, combat ends, and i have time to decide what i should do, where is a good place to fight, or even find a spot where i can wait for some trynnies.

Magic screen and missile shield are at max at that point, since at the mana fountain, i cast them until i succeed at level 7. 8But i think missile shield does not help against webbbing, only magic screen and elemental shield)

You mentioned fleeing to the house with the two spiders. I think you mean fleeing to where they were (you surely didn't let hostile monsters alive behind you?). If you can flee into this house, this is a place where you yan wait until some trynnies show up.

[Loudhy]

Oh, now I understand. You wait and train magic at the mana fountain. I don't train my party, not at magic and not at fighting . They usually start, fight and win ( on normal ).

But, as mentioned earlier, I already thought about a new stretegy, so I'm sure I'll win an expert game on my special way [img]smile.gif[/img] .

[img]graemlins/monster5.gif[/img]

[ 07-21-2004, 06:59 AM: Message edited by: Loudhy ]

[Wereboar]

No, i don't train magic. But when entering trynton (and when i need to rest there), i cast the buff spells at the fountain at level 7. Usually takes two or three mana restorations until they all succeeded. At least i make sure that i have magic screen up at full power, since i've lost two parties (without pure spellcasters) to some sprites.