Thief skills - Page 2

JR Jansen · 12-03-2001, 01:58 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Lord Ludtke:
Yeah, that was another thing I was wondering if I could see the rolls for the thief skills. The whole absence of real numbers just smacks of computer cheating

If anyone knows the exact locations and names of these items that could help me out.

Gloves of pickpocket can be found in the Coper coronet in one of the rooms up the stairs. The ring of danger sense exists wich gives you a bonus to detect traps but i can't remember where i found it. And you can always use potions of master thievery.

Dundee Slaytern · 12-03-2001, 02:12 AM

Ring of Danger Sense Location Spoiler
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In a trapped container in the Planar Sphere. In the room where you put the Demon Heart into the engine.

Tempesta · 12-03-2001, 02:21 AM

The ring of lockpicks, but i dont remember where to get it.

Mitro Jellywadder · 12-03-2001, 09:26 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Tempesta:
The ring of lockpicks, but i dont remember where to get it.

Spoiler
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It's on the traitor Shadow Thief in Aran Linvail's guildhouse. He's the one that starts complaining, and promptly gets thumped.

Yggdrasil · 12-03-2001, 09:53 AM

Don't forget the boots of stealth...and night armor.

Kaleban · 12-03-2001, 11:53 AM

In PnP games, you are correct in the "roll" needed to pick a lock/disarm trap/etc.

I believe it was implemented differently in the BG series though. Each Thief action (picking a chest, hiding in shadow, finding a trap, etc.) has a certain number attached to it, modified by difficulty.

Example: Hiding outdoors during day requires 85% Hide in Shadows, and your Thief has a 70%. You would NOT be able to hide successfully, no matter how many tries you take. Same thing with picking locks, if its "difficulty threshold" is set at 90% if you have an 85% Pick Locks ability, you will NEVER be able to pick it.

Its a far cry from normal PnP rules, which, no matter the difficulty, a Thief would ALWAYS have a chance with a really lucky roll. I could be wrong about this, but in my games, the evidence seems to corroborate this theory.

Dundee Slaytern · 12-03-2001, 12:04 PM

I do not know about Lockpicks and Detect/Disarm Traps, but I do know that going Stealth is based on rolls.

What most people do not know is that the game takes the average of your skill points in Hide in Shadows and Move Silently. Faulty as the logic may be, it is written in the game code that way.

You may have 100% in HiS, but if your MS is 20%, your effective chance to go Stealth is 60%. Obviously standing in broad daylight reduces your chance to go Stealth, what you need to do is to stand in a shadow. Standing in shadows and dark areas dramatically increases your chance to go Stealth. Standing under a lamp or a candle incurs penalties.

Morgeruat · 12-03-2001, 12:11 PM

The game does roll randomly for detect traps, so if you wait long enough you will find the traps, disarming them is another matter entirely...

to boost your thief skills there are potions of perception... +20% to all skills, potions of master thievery... +40% pick pockets/open locks, and one item that seems to have been forgotten, the mercykiller ring, from Diedre in the Adventurers-mart, gives a nice boost to several skills

Kaleban · 12-03-2001, 01:42 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Dundee Slaytern:
I do not know about Lockpicks and Detect/Disarm Traps, but I do know that going Stealth is based on rolls.

What most people do not know is that the game takes the average of your skill points in Hide in Shadows and Move Silently. Faulty as the logic may be, it is written in the game code that way.

You may have 100% in HiS, but if your MS is 20%, your effective chance to go Stealth is 60%. Obviously standing in broad daylight reduces your chance to go Stealth, what you need to do is to stand in a shadow. Standing in shadows and dark areas dramatically increases your chance to go Stealth. Standing under a lamp or a candle incurs penalties.

Didn't know about the averaging, but in a way it makes crazy sense. The way HS and MS were implemented in the BG series is a bit ludicrous anyways, if you make your roll, you're practically invisible, whereas in PnP HS and MS were more of a camouflaging skill than anything else.

But let me ask you this, how effective could you be even while invisible whilst stepping on dead branches, whistling a jaunty tune, or smashing through a kitchen? The backstab is based on hitting someone who doesn't know its coming, so if they can hear you they probably are expecting some sort of attack right?

Does this mean that with a 100% MS and a 20% HS, you'd still have a 60% chance of remaining "stealthy"?

Dundee Slaytern · 12-03-2001, 01:54 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Kaleban:
Does this mean that with a 100% MS and a 20% HS, you'd still have a 60% chance of remaining "stealthy"?

The short answer? Yes.

I did a test not too long ago, and it was proven that,

HiS/MS

250/20 is as good as 20/250

Heh, heh... with 20/250, you have a better chance of going Stealth than 125/125... better averages... ...

12-03-2001, 01:58 AM	#11
JR Jansen Drizzt Do'Urden Join Date: May 31, 2001 Location: Mol (Belgium) Posts: 658	quote: Originally posted by Lord Ludtke: Yeah, that was another thing I was wondering if I could see the rolls for the thief skills. The whole absence of real numbers just smacks of computer cheating If anyone knows the exact locations and names of these items that could help me out. Gloves of pickpocket can be found in the Coper coronet in one of the rooms up the stairs. The ring of danger sense exists wich gives you a bonus to detect traps but i can't remember where i found it. And you can always use potions of master thievery. __________________ JR<p>Damned i lost cousin Jan\'s techno gloves<p>Forest runner and first gnomish demiranger-protector with slightly rougueish tendencies and a natural dislike for Aerie

12-03-2001, 02:21 AM	#13
Tempesta Elite Waterdeep Guard Join Date: December 2, 2001 Location: unknown Posts: 13	The ring of lockpicks, but i dont remember where to get it. __________________ A.K.A - Relic Loresbane<p>\'Turn not thy face from the light of the sun, lest ye feel the burning of thy very souls!\'<p>\'Darkness comes over us all-for salvation comes washed in the blood of the innocent!\'<p> Tempesta, hired sword. - \"Worry not my Lord, though I may be no knight, your coin ensures my trust.\"<br />Kelsoph\'s Bro.<br />Necromatical Raiser of the Plastic Attack Gerbils

12-03-2001, 09:26 AM	#14
Mitro Jellywadder Quintesson Join Date: September 5, 2001 Location: Florida Age: 53 Posts: 1,016	quote: Originally posted by Tempesta: The ring of lockpicks, but i dont remember where to get it. Spoiler . . . . . . . . . . . . . It's on the traitor Shadow Thief in Aran Linvail's guildhouse. He's the one that starts complaining, and promptly gets thumped.

12-03-2001, 11:53 AM	#16
Kaleban Manshoon Join Date: October 12, 2001 Location: Bloomington, MN, USA Posts: 244	In PnP games, you are correct in the "roll" needed to pick a lock/disarm trap/etc. I believe it was implemented differently in the BG series though. Each Thief action (picking a chest, hiding in shadow, finding a trap, etc.) has a certain number attached to it, modified by difficulty. Example: Hiding outdoors during day requires 85% Hide in Shadows, and your Thief has a 70%. You would NOT be able to hide successfully, no matter how many tries you take. Same thing with picking locks, if its "difficulty threshold" is set at 90% if you have an 85% Pick Locks ability, you will NEVER be able to pick it. Its a far cry from normal PnP rules, which, no matter the difficulty, a Thief would ALWAYS have a chance with a really lucky roll. I could be wrong about this, but in my games, the evidence seems to corroborate this theory. __________________ He Will Win<BR>Whose Army Is Animated<BR>By The Same Spirit<BR>Throughout Its Ranks<P>Sun Tzu - The Art of War

12-03-2001, 12:11 PM	#18
Morgeruat Jack Burton Join Date: October 16, 2001 Location: PA Age: 44 Posts: 5,421	The game does roll randomly for detect traps, so if you wait long enough you will find the traps, disarming them is another matter entirely... to boost your thief skills there are potions of perception... +20% to all skills, potions of master thievery... +40% pick pockets/open locks, and one item that seems to have been forgotten, the mercykiller ring, from Diedre in the Adventurers-mart, gives a nice boost to several skills __________________ "Any attempt to cheat, especially with my wife, who is a dirty, dirty, tramp, and I am just gonna snap." Knibb High Principal - Billy Madison

12-03-2001, 02:12 AM	#12
Dundee Slaytern Ironworks Moderator Join Date: June 10, 2001 Location: Pasir Ris, Singapore Age: 42 Posts: 11,063	Ring of Danger Sense Location Spoiler ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ In a trapped container in the Planar Sphere. In the room where you put the Demon Heart into the engine.

12-03-2001, 09:53 AM	#15
Yggdrasil Dungeon Master Join Date: November 26, 2001 Location: Home Posts: 94	Don't forget the boots of stealth...and night armor.

12-03-2001, 12:04 PM	#17
Dundee Slaytern Ironworks Moderator Join Date: June 10, 2001 Location: Pasir Ris, Singapore Age: 42 Posts: 11,063	I do not know about Lockpicks and Detect/Disarm Traps, but I do know that going Stealth is based on rolls. What most people do not know is that the game takes the average of your skill points in Hide in Shadows and Move Silently. Faulty as the logic may be, it is written in the game code that way. You may have 100% in HiS, but if your MS is 20%, your effective chance to go Stealth is 60%. Obviously standing in broad daylight reduces your chance to go Stealth, what you need to do is to stand in a shadow. Standing in shadows and dark areas dramatically increases your chance to go Stealth. Standing under a lamp or a candle incurs penalties.

12-03-2001, 01:42 PM	#19
Kaleban Manshoon Join Date: October 12, 2001 Location: Bloomington, MN, USA Posts: 244	quote: Originally posted by Dundee Slaytern: I do not know about Lockpicks and Detect/Disarm Traps, but I do know that going Stealth is based on rolls. What most people do not know is that the game takes the average of your skill points in Hide in Shadows and Move Silently. Faulty as the logic may be, it is written in the game code that way. You may have 100% in HiS, but if your MS is 20%, your effective chance to go Stealth is 60%. Obviously standing in broad daylight reduces your chance to go Stealth, what you need to do is to stand in a shadow. Standing in shadows and dark areas dramatically increases your chance to go Stealth. Standing under a lamp or a candle incurs penalties. Didn't know about the averaging, but in a way it makes crazy sense. The way HS and MS were implemented in the BG series is a bit ludicrous anyways, if you make your roll, you're practically invisible, whereas in PnP HS and MS were more of a camouflaging skill than anything else. But let me ask you this, how effective could you be even while invisible whilst stepping on dead branches, whistling a jaunty tune, or smashing through a kitchen? The backstab is based on hitting someone who doesn't know its coming, so if they can hear you they probably are expecting some sort of attack right? Does this mean that with a 100% MS and a 20% HS, you'd still have a 60% chance of remaining "stealthy"? __________________ He Will Win<BR>Whose Army Is Animated<BR>By The Same Spirit<BR>Throughout Its Ranks<P>Sun Tzu - The Art of War

12-03-2001, 01:54 PM	#20
Dundee Slaytern Ironworks Moderator Join Date: June 10, 2001 Location: Pasir Ris, Singapore Age: 42 Posts: 11,063	quote: Originally posted by Kaleban: Does this mean that with a 100% MS and a 20% HS, you'd still have a 60% chance of remaining "stealthy"? The short answer? Yes. I did a test not too long ago, and it was proven that, HiS/MS 250/20 is as good as 20/250 Heh, heh... with 20/250, you have a better chance of going Stealth than 125/125... better averages... ...

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